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1950's Bedford 4x2 Emergency Pump(Green Goddess).
The A.F.S.(Auxiliary Fire Service)was formed in 1948, and for many years had only the use of inherited old war time vehicles,but it was very clear at that time the demand of another war would require a different and much larger fleet of firefighting vehicles.By the mid 1950's,exact details of the design process are difficult to find,but the Bedford chassis for most were chosen because it was the base for the new army trucks being introduced around about that time. Some ten body building firms added the firefighting bodies to the chassis which initially were in rear wheel drive only (the'S'chassis)and later,the majority,as 4x4(the'R'chassis),and by the mid 50's delivery of the new Bedford emergency pumps (EPs) knicknamed later as the "Green Goddess"commenced with a vast majority going straight into storage where they would remain for many years. The A.F.S.was disbanded on the 31st March 1968,almost twenty years after its creation and its fleet,which amounted to thousands of pumps,lorries,etc-returned to Home Office depots throughout the country. Many were sold at the time,and many were donated to Third World countries,many though,actually just over 1,000 remained in storage,well maintained by contractors until they might ever be needed again,and in actual fact,in 1977 during the firemans strike,850 vehicles were released to the Armed Forces to give fire cover across the UK.In 1986,several vehicles were again taken out of storage again,this time to assist in major heath fires across the country,especially in Hampshire.In 1987,Kent Fire Brigade hired ten Green Goddess's to assist during a particular severe winter.Again in 1995,the West Sussex Fire Brigade requested the assistence of the famous green beast the "Green Goddess",this time to assist in a pumping roll when severe flooding hit the City of Chichester so brigades operational appliances could be kept available. The 1950's Bedford"Green Goddess"emergency pump,an appliance all on its own and that can certainly be classed as one of the finest firefighting vehicles ever produced by the company of Bedford.
The A.F.S.(Auxiliary Fire Service)was formed in 1948, and for many years had only the use of inherited old war time vehicles,but it was very clear at that time the demand of another war would require a different and much larger fleet of firefighting vehicles.By the mid 1950's,exact details of the design process are difficult to find,but the Bedford chassis for most were chosen because it was the base for the new army trucks being introduced around about that time. Some ten body building firms added the firefighting bodies to the chassis which initially were in rear wheel drive only (the'S'chassis)and later,the majority,as 4x4(the'R'chassis),and by the mid 50's delivery of the new Bedford emergency pumps (EPs) knicknamed later as the "Green Goddess"commenced with a vast majority going straight into storage where they would remain for many years. The A.F.S.was disbanded on the 31st March 1968,almost twenty years after its creation and its fleet,which amounted to thousands of pumps,lorries,etc-returned to Home Office depots throughout the country. Many were sold at the time,and many were donated to Third World countries,many though,actually just over 1,000 remained in storage,well maintained by contractors until they might ever be needed again,and in actual fact,in 1977 during the firemans strike,850 vehicles were released to the Armed Forces to give fire cover across the UK.In 1986,several vehicles were again taken out of storage again,this time to assist in major heath fires across the country,especially in Hampshire.In 1987,Kent Fire Brigade hired ten Green Goddess's to assist during a particular severe winter.Again in 1995,the West Sussex Fire Brigade requested the assistence of the famous green beast the "Green Goddess",this time to assist in a pumping roll when severe flooding hit the City of Chichester so brigades operational appliances could be kept available. The 1950's Bedford"Green Goddess"emergency pump,an appliance all on its own and that can certainly be classed as one of the finest firefighting vehicles ever produced by the company of Bedford.
My brother and i both drove greengoddess appliances when we were members of the Auxillary fire service attached to newcastle and gateshead fire service.We had 5 machines, 1 at each station.We were part of a mobile collum that took part in numerous exercises At Chorley fire training school in Lancs.
Added by Tom Hogarth on 26 October 2008.
Added by Tom Hogarth on 26 October 2008.
i love using these to go to of road calls
Added by Rich(larbert fire cadets) on 05 January 2009.
Added by Rich(larbert fire cadets) on 05 January 2009.
this photo brings back so many memories when i was in the A.F.S. i went retained in 1968 when the A.F.S was disbanded.
Added by Malcolm Punter on 06 January 2009.
Added by Malcolm Punter on 06 January 2009.
I'm still doing a little bit more research on the A.F.S and its green machines at this time but in due course I hope to send in pictures, historical data and information, etc on the period that the Auxilliary Fire Service operated, which was of course from 1949 until it was disbanded at midnight on 31st March, 1968.
Added by Pete Matten on 06 January 2009.
Added by Pete Matten on 06 January 2009.
Rich, if you are a Cadet then how can you have gone to firecalls in a Green Goddess? It certainly wouldnt be allowed with insurance, and health and saftey
Added by Jamie Percival on 06 January 2009.
Added by Jamie Percival on 06 January 2009.
I learned to drive large vehicles on EP... the whole thing about them....although built by several body builders they were identical...sown to the positioning of the screws and rivets....and that is why they were suitable for training the armed forces personel to use in strike situations..They were not fast [although I managed over 80 mph once down the East Lancs Road....well, the speedo only goes up to 60 I got it round to 20 2nd time that was on the 4 x 2 version which were much more stable than the 4 x 4]
Added by Barrie Green on 06 January 2009.
Added by Barrie Green on 06 January 2009.
Hi, Are just like to say that, yes the green goddess is a lovely fire engine as myself have drove one in the last fire strike in 2003 as i am army.I was at motherwell on firecover in the 48 strikes and the 8 day strike too.It was a nice fire engine to drive and it did do the job has it was made for ie a basic firefighteing and for mass pumping of water in the event of nuclear war with mass fires with the civil defence.(A.F.S)Section.Anyway i hope what are left around the country are look after by the buyers and are show up and down the country for people to see them, has it was good for its time then, and it was some time ago again, but the speed was abit up setting at times.good old real fire engine throw, happy days.p.s ref picture i think this was a early fire engine made around 1954, the 4x2 ones were first then around 1956 came the 4x4 green goddess witch was most of the ones we had in the striks as the 4x2 ones where sold and got rid off when A.F.S was disbanded.hope this bit of info helps to us reads.
Added by Mark Whiteley on 06 January 2009.
Added by Mark Whiteley on 06 January 2009.
Hi, I have just notes that the date i put in is wrong, has the strikes was in late 2002.sorry.(goog old operation fresco).
Added by Mark Whiteley on 07 January 2009.
Added by Mark Whiteley on 07 January 2009.
Mark, the prototype was introduced in 1952 and differed actually from the production models by having hinged doors back and front of cab, and also
an illuminated fire sign, where as the production models had twin orange
blinking warning lights.The first Bedford S-Type models were indeed 4x2
but then in 1954, the Bedford R-Type four-wheel-drive chassis became the
norm of future appliances.Also, lets not forget the Bedford RLHZ 4X4's
which came a little later, these giving much greater ground clerance.
Added by Pete Matten on 07 January 2009.
an illuminated fire sign, where as the production models had twin orange
blinking warning lights.The first Bedford S-Type models were indeed 4x2
but then in 1954, the Bedford R-Type four-wheel-drive chassis became the
norm of future appliances.Also, lets not forget the Bedford RLHZ 4X4's
which came a little later, these giving much greater ground clerance.
Added by Pete Matten on 07 January 2009.
Hi, nice comments and info, so what we can say and no is the the bedford self-propelled pump, also known as the green goddess, was built between 1953-6, yes the first type was 4x2 then later on 4x4.was green all over and just a bell and two blinking amber lights just in the center at the top of the cab.because as we no the blue lights and orange strip came later to try make them more visible and just to try and slightly upgrade them with the modern times.also with the 2x4 the hosereel (or graden hose as we nickname them on the fireengines on the striks) was at the back, and on the 4x4 was just in the middle.
Added by Mark Whiteley on 07 January 2009.
Added by Mark Whiteley on 07 January 2009.
Hi Mark, yes once again your correct on what your saying.I really must try and get my pictures sorted, and the information done on the A.F.S.and send them in
to the site, I'll make that my next project.....OK.
A book to think about...Famous Fleets Volume Ten...The Auxilliary Fire Service
by Ron Anderson....(recently released)....ISBN 1 903016 17 7....Price £8.95
Anyone interested in the Auxilliary Fire Service this books worth getting.
Added by Pete Matten on 07 January 2009.
to the site, I'll make that my next project.....OK.
A book to think about...Famous Fleets Volume Ten...The Auxilliary Fire Service
by Ron Anderson....(recently released)....ISBN 1 903016 17 7....Price £8.95
Anyone interested in the Auxilliary Fire Service this books worth getting.
Added by Pete Matten on 07 January 2009.
Hi, thanks, no worrys hope info help, and thanks for the tip on the book, and if i can help on any more info on the A.F.S I will.Again just to say nice picture of a good working fire engine and good luck on info on the A.F.S and i wait to see the more pictures soon.
Added by Mark Whiteley on 07 January 2009.
Added by Mark Whiteley on 07 January 2009.
I worked with and drove these appliances in York and the North Yorkshire area in 2000 during some very serious flooding. They saved many properties and played a major part in saving a very large part of the Town of Selby and York. They were pumping day and night in some cases for days on end. We just kept putting the petrol in (gallons and gallons of the stuff). We had one appliance which had been "updated" it was painted a lime green colour and had a 5 speed gearbox and a diesel engine fitted, and blue lights fitted front and rear. They were delivered to Acomb fire station in York one evening by TNT the Company who were contracted by the Government to look after them at that time. Happy days !!!
Added by Paul Warnock on 08 January 2009.
Added by Paul Warnock on 08 January 2009.
Paul I can second your views on pumping capability. I remember in the 1977 strike setting up a water relay with six in Rotheram. We pumped out of the river into the town centre and its a wonder the town didn't flood! Amazing pump the Sigmund. Pete, another good reference is The Green Machine by Holliss & Thompson published 1995 by Enthusiasts Publications, a labour of love if ever there was one!
Added by John Stott on 08 January 2009.
Added by John Stott on 08 January 2009.
Hi me again, well just read the comments on the pumping power and workings, just shows again what a good machine it was, because i did here in so talk that the pump was more powerful than on some of the modern fire engines today.So just to say that it is fitted with a water pump capable of feeding four hose-lines with 900 gallons of water per minute.
Added by Mark Whiteley on 08 January 2009.
Added by Mark Whiteley on 08 January 2009.
Paul, the updated Lime Green Goddess was one which was updated as a project, Cummings B diesel engine and 6 speed ZF gearbox. I would have liked to have had a drive of it to compare with the standard GG. I understand it is in preservation.
Added by Barrie Green on 08 January 2009.
Added by Barrie Green on 08 January 2009.
Mark, to add to that, if you had small nozzles, ie 1/2", you could have about five lines going! One of the problems encountered was too much water going on to the fire and subsequent water damage!
Added by John Stott on 09 January 2009.
Added by John Stott on 09 January 2009.
Hi, well more good comments, anyway ref the new one or the project one that has come to light, it was one leter green goddess made, and ref to one off my last comments it was to make it more modern with the time.It was yellow colour with a orange strip down it.It had all the blues and twos fitted and roller shutters over the equipment bays and a new engine fitted.It was a one time project as it cost up to £25.000 pounds to do and it was to much to do all the fire engine so the project to moderns all the green goddess was bin.But the one what was work on is in preservation.
Added by Mark Whiteley on 10 January 2009.
Added by Mark Whiteley on 10 January 2009.
Barrie and John thanks for the update, I never got to drive the lime green vehicle only the dark green vehicles.
Added by Paul Warnock on 11 January 2009.
Added by Paul Warnock on 11 January 2009.
To be honest Paul, that diesel sounds too powerful for it what with the body roll and handling, but I could be wrong. Barrie, whats the hp on the Cummins?
Added by John Stott on 12 January 2009.
Added by John Stott on 12 January 2009.
Not sure John.....the B engine comes in several power versions, I have seen them used in small midi buses and also full sized coaches.
Added by Barrie Green on 12 January 2009.
Added by Barrie Green on 12 January 2009.
Thanks Barrie, it was just a thought, cant imagine the old girls with anything other than the old lump thats all!
Added by John Stott on 13 January 2009.
Added by John Stott on 13 January 2009.
The B range of cummins engines ranged from 180 to 270 bhp
Added by Jason Lester on 13 January 2009.
Added by Jason Lester on 13 January 2009.
i believe that the lime green Goddess is in the care of manston fire museum, in their storage facility
Added by Terry on 01 August 2010.
Added by Terry on 01 August 2010.
i found out today that it is in fact in the care of manston fire museum, either at the museum its self or in their storage facility
Added by Terry on 01 August 2010.
Added by Terry on 01 August 2010.
If anyone is interested as green Goddesses are not really my strong point I saw SYH426 struggling up the hill out of Shepton Mallet today on my way home from work. The rear body has now been removed and replaced with living accomodaton made out of wood. You could still see however by the cab and it colour that it was a green Goddess/AFS appliance.
Added by Paul Pickford on 17 August 2010.
Added by Paul Pickford on 17 August 2010.
There is at least one fully kitted Bikini Unit preserved. picture of it on the net. it was at the Derby Fire Show I think last year.
Added by Dave Price on 17 August 2010.
Added by Dave Price on 17 August 2010.
I am sure I have a pic of that Dave....I thought I had posted it on here
Added by Barrie Green on 17 August 2010.
Added by Barrie Green on 17 August 2010.
I was a driver of one of the gg NYR 254 s in manchester and we were on call two nights wed/fri and sunday afternoon and went out to real fire calls. I joined 13th april 1960 18th Birthday and stayed to the end 1968.Now living in south africa worked at VW who had a Red Painted gg now gone.
Added by Robert Armitage on 22 December 2011.
Added by Robert Armitage on 22 December 2011.
A few years ago, a chap named Nigel Tipping owned a very well preserved Bikini Raft Unit, together with at least one Green Goddess.I would be delighted if anyone who wishes to contact me would do so!
The Goddess which I was a crew member on at Stafford was PGW 513 (EP 14)
We took part in a weekend exercise once a month, and also, I'm sure that any ex AFS members may recall went on a course at the Fire Service Training Centre at Moreton in the Marsh
Added by Dave Hill on 12 January 2012.
The Goddess which I was a crew member on at Stafford was PGW 513 (EP 14)
We took part in a weekend exercise once a month, and also, I'm sure that any ex AFS members may recall went on a course at the Fire Service Training Centre at Moreton in the Marsh
Added by Dave Hill on 12 January 2012.
Anyone know of a Bikini Raft bUnit still in preservation, and also 'on the road'
It would be interesting to see a preserved A.F.S Control Unit
If any of you has a particular interest in the A.F.S, I'd be relly pleased to hear from you.
Dave
Added by David Hill on 17 February 2012.
It would be interesting to see a preserved A.F.S Control Unit
If any of you has a particular interest in the A.F.S, I'd be relly pleased to hear from you.
Dave
Added by David Hill on 17 February 2012.
Bikini Unit Commer Q4 a friend has a complete one he bought off ebay a few years back complete with all the Lpps on it and two brand new rafts the truck has the loading crane - frame still and the metal work over the cab I will get some photos and post on here its not far off restoration being its located in Holton Heath Dorset.The only other one was Nigel Tippings and in Durham Montes yard there are two Commer Q4 Bikini unit just sat up in his yard he bought them I was told when the AFS disbanded at bought at MOD auction.
Added by Morgan Chapman on 18 February 2012.
Added by Morgan Chapman on 18 February 2012.
Nigel Tipping owned RYX 26. it then went to Owen Durbin who was a fitter at Marchington until it closed. In 2005 Owen started work on restoring another which was RYX 65.
Added by Ted Angus on 18 February 2012.
Added by Ted Angus on 18 February 2012.
hello dave Yes I have an interest in the A.F.S. as I spent 15 years with them at Doncaster . Went to Moreton in marsh and Chorley many times. We had 2 4x2 GGs NYV60 NYV82 1 Matchless motorbike and 1 Austin countryman also 1 ATV
Added by Colin Raybould on 18 February 2012.
Added by Colin Raybould on 18 February 2012.
Colin, thanks for the comments Could you please get in touch via my e mail?
Thanks, Dave
Added by David Hill on 06 March 2012.
Thanks, Dave
Added by David Hill on 06 March 2012.
Hi All, I run the AFS Matchless Motorycycle Register and would like to hear from anyone who might have information or photographs of any of the Matchless motorcycles used by the AFS.
Dave
Added by Dave Stapleton on 05 May 2012.
Dave
Added by Dave Stapleton on 05 May 2012.
I'm desperately trying to track down a Green Goddess identicle to this model in the picture. A 4x2 B2 that was based at Holmer Green in Buckinghamshire, reg plate NYR 28. My great grandad, grandad and great uncle all served with NYR 28 whilst in the AFS and I would love to trace her for obvious sentimental reasons. Every avenue I have persued has lead to a complete dead end (namely because the last owner recorded in my files sold the vehicle on but cannot tell me where it went as all of their records were ironically destroyed by a large fire at their premise!)
Does any enthusiasts know ANY avenue I can now persue to try and track down this piece of family history? I have even contacted DVLA for their help which wasn't great but at least another path explored!
ANY help on this matter would be greatly appreciated
Added by Chris Daniel on 15 September 2012.
Does any enthusiasts know ANY avenue I can now persue to try and track down this piece of family history? I have even contacted DVLA for their help which wasn't great but at least another path explored!
ANY help on this matter would be greatly appreciated
Added by Chris Daniel on 15 September 2012.
I joined AFS in Cardiff in 1963. The Green Goddess was termed either SP (Self-Propelled Pump) or EP (Emergency Pump) petrol engined, synchro box and I believe power steering. 900gpm pump designed for 24hr operation plus a 'Light Portable' in the front locker (wheels for transportation mounted on the rear). Besided normal collecting head it had a 6" victualic joint inlet for relay pumping on the lower offside rear. Hose-reels were not so good as they were worked from the main pump so could only manage 100psi or so and the tank/pump feed was too narrow for a good flow.In Cardiff we also had Bikini Unit with three rafts not two and three LPP's ('Light' Portable Pumps) per raft. Hose lorry with Bridging Unit with 6" plastic pipe (victualic joints) with steel White overhead section. We rode to actual fires with the whole-time red machines! No worry about insurance/health & safety in those days! Had a motor-bike for despatch riding and a short wheel-base I thought was a Land Rover with VHF radio transceiver. Great days and much enthusiasm. Three nights a week training was not enough for us. On hearing rumours of axing, I joined full time fire service in Birmingham in October 1965. Cardiff later had a Foam tender (in red) adapted from an EP. Birmingham had an ex AFS Recovery Vehicle/ET also in red.
Added by Tony (Taff) Madsen Fm 1565 on 25 November 2012.
Added by Tony (Taff) Madsen Fm 1565 on 25 November 2012.
Great to get back on this site again and to read all the comments regarding the A.F.S.
If any of you know about any meetings/rally's which are happening next year(2013), I'd be glad to hear about them
Added by Dave Hill on 25 November 2012.
If any of you know about any meetings/rally's which are happening next year(2013), I'd be glad to hear about them
Added by Dave Hill on 25 November 2012.
The Cardiff E.P is shown at a large scale Tac Ex at RAF sealand North Wales along with others from across Wales on You tube Taff you may even see your self if you attended.
Added by Dave Price on 26 November 2012.
Added by Dave Price on 26 November 2012.
Dave, didn't go to North Wales. Only went to one exercise and that was Chorley in Lancs where we the crew had to 'camp' overnight on/in the EP. Ladders on edge with salvage sheets tied over made a cosy tent. I slept on cab roof with my head by the bell. No, I didn't roll off!
Another note, the LPP's I recall were Coventry Climax and sounded great except when using max revs for priming using the exhaust gasses. I also think they were 350gpm each as the propulsion jet for the Bikini Raft took 250gpm (25 x diameter [1"] squared x square root of the nozzle pressure [100psi] = 250gpm but from the same pump we also had another jet vertically. With one diagonally from each of the other two pumps they formed a Prince of Wales feathers while giving a display on Roath Park Lake in Cardiff about 1964. Wish I had some pics of that time!
Added by Tony (Taff) Madsen Fm 1565 on 28 November 2012.
Another note, the LPP's I recall were Coventry Climax and sounded great except when using max revs for priming using the exhaust gasses. I also think they were 350gpm each as the propulsion jet for the Bikini Raft took 250gpm (25 x diameter [1"] squared x square root of the nozzle pressure [100psi] = 250gpm but from the same pump we also had another jet vertically. With one diagonally from each of the other two pumps they formed a Prince of Wales feathers while giving a display on Roath Park Lake in Cardiff about 1964. Wish I had some pics of that time!
Added by Tony (Taff) Madsen Fm 1565 on 28 November 2012.
Tony after all these years Chorley is still going. It is Washington Hall Lancashire Fire & Rescue training school.
Added by Dave price on 29 November 2012.
Added by Dave price on 29 November 2012.
and Washington Hall is soon to be the site of the new HQ for Lancs County !!!!
Added by Barrie Green on 29 November 2012.
Added by Barrie Green on 29 November 2012.
A few notes:
1- I saw an excercise in Darlington when the AFS assembled ten Green Godesses and used the 6 inch piping for a relay, pumping out of the Skerne river. As I recall, the six inch on the offside was not an inlet, but an outlet which could flow the full volume output when relaying, if using the 6" piping carried on one of the supporting pipe carriers. I suppose nobody knew how to make 6" flat hose in those days, as London's largest relay hose back then was 3.5 inch (90mm). The pipe lorry also carried a 6 inch distributor with six 2.75 inch outlets to feed one or more receiving pumps at the fireground. I remember the demonstration pump put up three very fine jets, with three firefighters hanging on to each - probably a total of 750 GPM or even more.
2- The portable pump was indeed 350 GPM, and was quite a bit bigger than the "civilian" 250 GPM Coventry Climax PP carried on many front line city and county fire brigade water tenders. This is why it had to be stowed in a large transverse locker behind the cab, and supplied with its own wheels, so it could be pushed or pulled around instead of always having to be carried (a four man job, according to the AFS drill book!) The thinking was that in a wartime environment, the fire service might often have to rely on open water sources, and the Bedfords might not be able to gain access. The 350 GPM was about as heavy as was practical to move around, and was the same capacity as the WWII NFS "medium trailer pump". The problem of getting to open water is probably the reason for the Home Office to switch to 4X4, to improve access over rubble or destroyed roads, but both of the AFS pumps in Darlington were the older rear-drive version.
3- History repeated itself in Cardiff. When I visited the central station in 1967, the foam tender at that time was a converted fire engine red WWII NFS Austin Heavy Unit! Obviously a city which was very consistent in finding an economical solution when it came to fielding a specialized unit which covered very few miles.
Added by Rob Johnson on 30 November 2012.
1- I saw an excercise in Darlington when the AFS assembled ten Green Godesses and used the 6 inch piping for a relay, pumping out of the Skerne river. As I recall, the six inch on the offside was not an inlet, but an outlet which could flow the full volume output when relaying, if using the 6" piping carried on one of the supporting pipe carriers. I suppose nobody knew how to make 6" flat hose in those days, as London's largest relay hose back then was 3.5 inch (90mm). The pipe lorry also carried a 6 inch distributor with six 2.75 inch outlets to feed one or more receiving pumps at the fireground. I remember the demonstration pump put up three very fine jets, with three firefighters hanging on to each - probably a total of 750 GPM or even more.
2- The portable pump was indeed 350 GPM, and was quite a bit bigger than the "civilian" 250 GPM Coventry Climax PP carried on many front line city and county fire brigade water tenders. This is why it had to be stowed in a large transverse locker behind the cab, and supplied with its own wheels, so it could be pushed or pulled around instead of always having to be carried (a four man job, according to the AFS drill book!) The thinking was that in a wartime environment, the fire service might often have to rely on open water sources, and the Bedfords might not be able to gain access. The 350 GPM was about as heavy as was practical to move around, and was the same capacity as the WWII NFS "medium trailer pump". The problem of getting to open water is probably the reason for the Home Office to switch to 4X4, to improve access over rubble or destroyed roads, but both of the AFS pumps in Darlington were the older rear-drive version.
3- History repeated itself in Cardiff. When I visited the central station in 1967, the foam tender at that time was a converted fire engine red WWII NFS Austin Heavy Unit! Obviously a city which was very consistent in finding an economical solution when it came to fielding a specialized unit which covered very few miles.
Added by Rob Johnson on 30 November 2012.
The AFS did indeed have 6" hose carried on the Commer QL hose layers, 1/2 mile from memory. The hose was fitted with the same couplings as the pipelines. The LPP was the FWP rated I think at 300gpm at 100psi although I have seen both quoted. Lancs used them until the 70s when they were suceeded by the Angus Reliant engined LPP at about 200gpm.
The FWP designation stood for Feather weight pump. At 300lbs not exactly light but compared to the wartime small trailer pump at 450lbs for c150gpm at 80psi a vast improvement.
Added by Neal Glover on 30 November 2012.
The FWP designation stood for Feather weight pump. At 300lbs not exactly light but compared to the wartime small trailer pump at 450lbs for c150gpm at 80psi a vast improvement.
Added by Neal Glover on 30 November 2012.
Neal: I don't remember seeing any 6" hoses, but it may just have been they weren't using them when they set up this relay. What I wonder is why they bothered with the piping? You can store a lot more hose in the truck than rigid piping, and hose ramps (even for 6 inch hose) take up a lot less space than all the tubes they used for the 6" pipeline bridging contraption. Sounds like a solution to a problem which could have been addressed much more simply by just using hoses.
Added by Rob Johnson on 03 December 2012.
Added by Rob Johnson on 03 December 2012.
Rob
Yes there was 6" hose and it was a Green colour and it was quite a rough surface and it 1/2 mile long on the truck and you could lay it at 30MPH. I have used both Pipe & hose on some of the camps we went on. We used the pipe across fields etc and the hose on the road. We had pumps ever 1/4 mile and the steel pipes were to go over roads and were surposed to stay there for weeks if required for WW3. The camps we went on were Morten on marsh, Catrik RAF, Bhisop brigs ( Glasgow), Southport & Chorley. I cant remember anymore of hand and I don't know if I have spelt them ok or not but you get the idear.
I have just seen a vido on you tube showing the welsh & Southport AFS training these will answer a lot of your questions.
Added by Bob Armitage on 03 December 2012.
Yes there was 6" hose and it was a Green colour and it was quite a rough surface and it 1/2 mile long on the truck and you could lay it at 30MPH. I have used both Pipe & hose on some of the camps we went on. We used the pipe across fields etc and the hose on the road. We had pumps ever 1/4 mile and the steel pipes were to go over roads and were surposed to stay there for weeks if required for WW3. The camps we went on were Morten on marsh, Catrik RAF, Bhisop brigs ( Glasgow), Southport & Chorley. I cant remember anymore of hand and I don't know if I have spelt them ok or not but you get the idear.
I have just seen a vido on you tube showing the welsh & Southport AFS training these will answer a lot of your questions.
Added by Bob Armitage on 03 December 2012.
The piping goes back to WW2 when 6 inch steel pipes were used to replace bomb damaged water mains in London and other large cities......you must remember that the reorganised AFS was a result of lessons learned during the Blitz and polythene piping was a new invention in the 1950s which was obviously much lighter and easier to handle than steel pipes.
Added by Barrie Green on 03 December 2012.
Added by Barrie Green on 03 December 2012.
I had look at the Southport film.It brings back happy memories as I was on most of the Tac Ex's shown.Pump competition at Washington Hall.The one with the pumps all nose to tail and in the docks was Ter Cen in London royal docks three hundred year after the great Fire of London.The other was on the marine lake at Southport water relay and pipe line across to the island I was base pump operater by the pier. The one with the six inch hose being layed was called Tac Ex Celyn and was in North Wales this was also filmed by Liverpool Fire Brigade.
Added by Dave Price on 04 December 2012.
Added by Dave Price on 04 December 2012.
Dave there some photos of an AFS exercise in Wales on the Delta 64 website, I think under Merseyside, taken alongside a lake that could be Llyn Celyn. The scenery looks right but the roadside does'nt.
Added by Neal Glover on 04 December 2012.
Added by Neal Glover on 04 December 2012.
Neal I have a copy of those pictures. The camp was at Bedgellet and was on lake Llyn Dinas.Hope to see more to-day on a visit to Merseyside Museum at BHQ,
Added by Dave Price on 06 December 2012.
Added by Dave Price on 06 December 2012.
Hi Neal & Dave
I have seen the photos you mentioned in a book, but do not have any copies showing the motorcycles. I would be grateful to hear from anyone who might have photos of any AFS motorcycles to add to our database.
See www.afs-matchless.info
Dave
Added by Dave Stapleton on 06 December 2012.
I have seen the photos you mentioned in a book, but do not have any copies showing the motorcycles. I would be grateful to hear from anyone who might have photos of any AFS motorcycles to add to our database.
See www.afs-matchless.info
Dave
Added by Dave Stapleton on 06 December 2012.
The 6 inch diameter flat hose was also carried on Bedford S (2 wheel drive) and Bedford R (4 wheel drive) vehicles. In 1965 London had 5 hoselayers, 3 Bedfords and 2 Commers.
I had to test some 6 inch hose after our local hoselayer stationed at Enfield had been used on an exersise. To test the hose we connected about 8 75 foot lengths into the outlet on the offside of our pump and set our suction into open water.
To get the resistance required we used a 6 inch blank cap with a half inch hole in it and returned the discharge back into the open water.
Operating presure for 6 inch hose was 75 pounds PSI and was tested to 100 pounds PSI. We did have a length split on testing.
Added by Vince Tarling on 06 December 2012.
I had to test some 6 inch hose after our local hoselayer stationed at Enfield had been used on an exersise. To test the hose we connected about 8 75 foot lengths into the outlet on the offside of our pump and set our suction into open water.
To get the resistance required we used a 6 inch blank cap with a half inch hole in it and returned the discharge back into the open water.
Operating presure for 6 inch hose was 75 pounds PSI and was tested to 100 pounds PSI. We did have a length split on testing.
Added by Vince Tarling on 06 December 2012.
.....and then you had to haul the wet hose up the tower to dry.......ahh such joy !!!!
Added by Barrie Green on 07 December 2012.
Added by Barrie Green on 07 December 2012.
6 inch hose Never went up the tower!
1/2 Mile each side of a hose laying unit with an EP in the middle, on the flat.
All hose layers cared slues valves that could be used to block 6 inch if you wished to, But there was no mandatory testing!
Grey Watch "X"AFS. Warwickshire.
Added by Barry Collins on 21 December 2013.
1/2 Mile each side of a hose laying unit with an EP in the middle, on the flat.
All hose layers cared slues valves that could be used to block 6 inch if you wished to, But there was no mandatory testing!
Grey Watch "X"AFS. Warwickshire.
Added by Barry Collins on 21 December 2013.
I wasnt referring to the 6 inch Barry....I was talking about the many lengths of canvas delivery hose used in the exercises. I remember getting issued with our first red duraline hose (full time by then) use the hose, under-run it to drain the water then roll it up and back in the locker for next time....we thought that we had arrived in heaven!
Added by Barrie Green on 22 December 2013.
Added by Barrie Green on 22 December 2013.
The picture brings back many happy memories I was in AFS at Hartlepool (formerly West Hartlepool) we had 3 350cc matchless motor bikes landrover reg NYR 904 2 4x2 goddesses NYR 449 NYV 77 if memory serves me well. Spent many a weekend at Kielder forest in forestry commision buildings also weeks at moreton in marsh fire service traing ing centre (early days of it. Just to finish I would like to thank the local fire officers men and women for the help and companionship then and since.
David Berry AFS 138 Hartlepool. My father was in AFS at beginning of the war when I joined my older brother left Civil Defence ti join AFS Sorry about ramblimg God Bless you all.
Added by David Berry on 03 March 2015.
David Berry AFS 138 Hartlepool. My father was in AFS at beginning of the war when I joined my older brother left Civil Defence ti join AFS Sorry about ramblimg God Bless you all.
Added by David Berry on 03 March 2015.
Can anyone tell me the correct dimensions of the green goddess bell and what stamp marks it should have please?
Added by Tony on 28 December 2015.
Added by Tony on 28 December 2015.
Does anybody have a correct bell for sale or know of where I can buy one?
Added by Tony on 07 January 2016.
Added by Tony on 07 January 2016.
Hi, ,
I picked up an e mail asking me to come onto this site Thursday 7th January 2016 but have not a clue why. Anyone know?
Dave Hill
Added by Dave Hill on 07 January 2016.
I picked up an e mail asking me to come onto this site Thursday 7th January 2016 but have not a clue why. Anyone know?
Dave Hill
Added by Dave Hill on 07 January 2016.
There was one on Ebay a week or so back. They do appear often at silly prices, try looking under fire bell. They look rather tall and thin and the royal cypher ER with crown cast into the top. They have often been skimmed to make them smooth for polishing, the middle part were origionaly left rough cast and painted.
Added by Neal Glover on 07 January 2016.
Added by Neal Glover on 07 January 2016.
I was sent an e mail which had a link to this page, but there does not seem to be anything new in the postings above. Can anyone help here?
Thanks,
DAVE
Added by David Hill on 08 January 2016.
Thanks,
DAVE
Added by David Hill on 08 January 2016.
Tony, If you're not aware of it, there is a yahoo group specifically relating to Green Goddesses and the AFS. Free to join and provides significant information and support to those owning or interested in Green Goddesses. Your recent posts will undoubtedly be answered there.
h t t p s :// groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/RSOLES/info
"The Bedford R Series Owners Lovers Enthusiasts Society). RSOLES the club for the enthusiast of these vehicles that were simply rocket science when they first came out. News, help and info for those with an interest in the Bedford RL and RS models particularly the 'Green Goddess' self propelled pump."
Added by Jonathan Wade on 10 January 2016.
h t t p s :// groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/RSOLES/info
"The Bedford R Series Owners Lovers Enthusiasts Society). RSOLES the club for the enthusiast of these vehicles that were simply rocket science when they first came out. News, help and info for those with an interest in the Bedford RL and RS models particularly the 'Green Goddess' self propelled pump."
Added by Jonathan Wade on 10 January 2016.
I have "SYH 392" For sale if any one is interested forth from last out of Marchington!!
Added by Mr Barry Collins on 12 January 2016.
Added by Mr Barry Collins on 12 January 2016.
Barry. Does your Goddess have a bell? If so would you be interested in selling it?
Added by Tony on 13 January 2016.
Added by Tony on 13 January 2016.
I am in the process of buying SYH 212. Would that have been built at Marchington? Its coming from the MOD so hopefully will come with loads of files and paperwork.
Added by Tony on 13 January 2016.
Added by Tony on 13 January 2016.
Hi Tony, First off all Goddess's were property of the Home Office never the MOD. The Army had some
built all were Red and had a locker N/S Rear I have never seen one except in books.
Try to get hold of Barry Holliss's book "THE GREEN
MACHINE" it will tell you a lot.
Marchington was the store were all Goddesses were
looked after by the Home Office under contract.
when the AFS was stud down in 1968 it was costing
4 million a year after the stand down it cost 2
million a year to store the vehicles. end of rant.
I think my bell should go with my pump, But I have
other kit like Ground monitors if you are interested.
Added by Mr Barry Collins on 14 January 2016.
built all were Red and had a locker N/S Rear I have never seen one except in books.
Try to get hold of Barry Holliss's book "THE GREEN
MACHINE" it will tell you a lot.
Marchington was the store were all Goddesses were
looked after by the Home Office under contract.
when the AFS was stud down in 1968 it was costing
4 million a year after the stand down it cost 2
million a year to store the vehicles. end of rant.
I think my bell should go with my pump, But I have
other kit like Ground monitors if you are interested.
Added by Mr Barry Collins on 14 January 2016.
I own NYV 185 bedford SHZ 4x2 goddess 1953 had her 10 yrs in exelent condition had a full recon 330 diesel fitted. Only covered 9, 400 from new. Also own bedford s type mobile command unit NYV 668. 1956 only 4, 400 miles from new also own bedford RLC. Ex army. 1959. Overhauled by army 1984 mothballed until sold 1987. Milage from new 44, 675 XAS 716 cab rebuild in progress.
Added by Graham Wilkinson on 21 February 2016.
Added by Graham Wilkinson on 21 February 2016.
I joined Southampton AFS aged 17yrs in 1956. Left to do National Service returning in 1961. My first taste of driving a larger vehicle was a Green Godess. Eventually became AFS/LF and left in 1967 to join Hampshire Police. The Green Godess was a great appliance and ahead of its time in some ways superior to the regular machines in use at the time. It annoys me when they have been used during firemans strikes that they get bad press. In Southampton we had 3 GG's NYR1, NYR2 and NYR4, a Bikini Unit, a Hose Layer, a Foam Tender an Austin Gypsy and a Motorcycle. Happy Days!!!!
Added by [email protected] on 21 July 2017.
Added by [email protected] on 21 July 2017.
I have a green goddess with a spare brand new engine and loads of parts which we are looking to dispose of. It is a Bedford RL2.
Added by Kev on 27 March 2018.
Added by Kev on 27 March 2018.
Hi
I’m trying to find a 4x2 Green Goddess. My dad is 80 this year, he drove the 4x2 right up to when the AFS was disbanded in 1968.
I would love him to see the 4x2 again.
Can anyone help
Many thanks
Added by Chris Lawrence on 03 September 2018.
I’m trying to find a 4x2 Green Goddess. My dad is 80 this year, he drove the 4x2 right up to when the AFS was disbanded in 1968.
I would love him to see the 4x2 again.
Can anyone help
Many thanks
Added by Chris Lawrence on 03 September 2018.
I know where a SHZ 4x2 is in Western Australia (I am restoring it for our local Bushfire Brigade Heritage Group).
Added by Ray harding on 23 June 2020.
Added by Ray harding on 23 June 2020.
I joined Edinburgh AFS as a 19 year old and had a happy 8 years with them until disbandment. Dispatch rider course at Moreton has great memories. Later emigrated to South Africa, joined Civil Defence and due to a chronic shortage of full time firemen in the 80s became retained and endured serious and scary training. Later moved to Zululand in 1982 and was surprised to find a 2by4 GG as the main appliance. Unaltered it was except for blue lights and horns. Drove it as a retained fireman for several years until the hard regular usage and extreme temperatures, up to 40C, resulted in the old lady having to be retired. I will never forget it struggling up the steep Zululand hills at about 10 MPH to shouts of encouragement from the crew sitting behind on the bench. And having to plan corners well in advance as the steering wheel seemed to be only occasionally connected to the front wheels.
Would be interesting to hear about any other Green Godesses used overseas.
Added by Doug Bailey on 08 May 2021.
Would be interesting to hear about any other Green Godesses used overseas.
Added by Doug Bailey on 08 May 2021.
I joined the AFA in 1964 at Ashington in Northumberland we did our training at the fire station there, I attened several training camps one was near Kielder Castle before Kielder Water was formed, the other was in Lancaster the name I can't quite recall. I drove several tenders, after having passed my test in an old red crash gearboxed untility van, double declutching was needed in it, Land Rovers, green goddeses and command headquarters they were Bedfords except of course the Land Rover. When went to the camp in Lancaster we all set off from our respective fire station and rendezvous at Scotch Corner in the layby before we set off in convoy for the training camp. due to the amount of fuel they used we had a refueling stop half way there. Kielder was my favorite and we spent nights at the Kielder castle drinking. We stayed in wooden huts at both camps. Happy days them times
Added by Alan Wood on 21 August 2021.
Added by Alan Wood on 21 August 2021.
Hi - does anyone have any information about the number of these wonderful vehicles that were bodied by Longwell Green Coachworks? I’m currently researching the company history and it’s well known that they provided the bodywork for Bedford R series but no records appear to survive. Any info welcome!
ED: Bristol city archives may be a source and are you aware of the "Green machine" book here
www.paulmeekins.co.uk/product/61337/THE-GREEN-MACHINE-VEHICLES-OF-THE-AUXILIARY-FIRE-SERVICE-AND-MOBILE-FIRE-COLUMNS-TOGETHER-WITH-DETAILS-OF-POLICE-MOBILE-COLUMN-AND-CIVIL-DEFENCE-VEHICLES
Added by John Hitchings on 05 March 2023.
ED: Bristol city archives may be a source and are you aware of the "Green machine" book here
www.paulmeekins.co.uk/product/61337/THE-GREEN-MACHINE-VEHICLES-OF-THE-AUXILIARY-FIRE-SERVICE-AND-MOBILE-FIRE-COLUMNS-TOGETHER-WITH-DETAILS-OF-POLICE-MOBILE-COLUMN-AND-CIVIL-DEFENCE-VEHICLES
Added by John Hitchings on 05 March 2023.
Longwell Green are also mentioned in the 2012 book on HCB Angus by Aiden Fisher. He may be contactable via social media. He does post on this site too.
Added by Petros on 05 March 2023.
Added by Petros on 05 March 2023.
one more thing about Longwell Green - according to the post below they are related to the Bence family coachbuilders of Bristol who still make fire appliances (Flickr has other Longwell info)
www.flickr.com/photos/fray_bentos/204978616/in/photolist-ywAjUo-5SAkhU-4B8m5Q-dgbvcx-8rByTt-dac8wJ-j7z15
Added by Petros on 05 March 2023.
www.flickr.com/photos/fray_bentos/204978616/in/photolist-ywAjUo-5SAkhU-4B8m5Q-dgbvcx-8rByTt-dac8wJ-j7z15
Added by Petros on 05 March 2023.
Bedford
Added by Rich on 13 October 2008.