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Mercedes - Benz 4x4 Water Ladder North Yorkshire
K125 APY. 1992 Mercedes Benz 917AF 4x4 Water Ladder with HCB - Angus bodywork. North Yorkshire fire and Rescue service. North Yorkshire purchased 8 of these appliances and were placed across the county to give cover to remote rural areas. They were fitted with high pressure lances to get to deep seated fires on moorlands.
K125 APY. 1992 Mercedes Benz 917AF 4x4 Water Ladder with HCB - Angus bodywork. North Yorkshire fire and Rescue service. North Yorkshire purchased 8 of these appliances and were placed across the county to give cover to remote rural areas. They were fitted with high pressure lances to get to deep seated fires on moorlands.
Hi John. There are 6 still in the Brigade at the following locations. kirkbymoorside, Malton, Summerbridge, Danby, Robin Hoods Bay and the Training Centre at Easingwold.Rumour has it that they are to be replaced soon, but not sure what with, we will have to wait and see. Paul.
Added by Paul Warnock on 07 February 2008.
Added by Paul Warnock on 07 February 2008.
They are allocated to:
K125KPY - Kirkbymoorside
L795GVN - Malton
L796GVN - Summerbridge
L797GVN - Danby
L798GVN - Robin Hood's Bay
L799GVN - Training Centre
K125APY has body work by HCB-Angus whereas L795-799GVN have bodywork by Angloco.
Added by Jake Sutton on 07 February 2008.
K125KPY - Kirkbymoorside
L795GVN - Malton
L796GVN - Summerbridge
L797GVN - Danby
L798GVN - Robin Hood's Bay
L799GVN - Training Centre
K125APY has body work by HCB-Angus whereas L795-799GVN have bodywork by Angloco.
Added by Jake Sutton on 07 February 2008.
Thanks Paul and Jake for the information, wonder what they will be replaced with, can you get a 4x4 atego? they must be getting on a bit now really, so maybe a replacement is overdue really.
Added by John Johnstone on 08 February 2008.
Added by John Johnstone on 08 February 2008.
Does anyone have a full fleet list for North yorkshire that they can e-mail to me, the more current the better, sorry to be so picky!
Added by John Johnstone on 08 February 2008.
Added by John Johnstone on 08 February 2008.
Do any of our Yorkshire experts know if these were full JCDD compliant B water tenders with 1800 liter tanks?
I wonder because a nine ton Ecoliner would be pushed to accommodate this weight of water, if it had everything else on board which the Joint Council recommended.
They could of course have been upgraded, without having the door badges changed, and I know that did happen sometimes...
As for their replacements, there were and still are oodles of Atego 4X4s in fire service use around the World, as well Unimogs and just about everybody else - MAN, Volvo, Scania, DAF, Renault, Tatra and Iveco-Magirus included!
Added by Rob Johnson on 29 April 2018.
I wonder because a nine ton Ecoliner would be pushed to accommodate this weight of water, if it had everything else on board which the Joint Council recommended.
They could of course have been upgraded, without having the door badges changed, and I know that did happen sometimes...
As for their replacements, there were and still are oodles of Atego 4X4s in fire service use around the World, as well Unimogs and just about everybody else - MAN, Volvo, Scania, DAF, Renault, Tatra and Iveco-Magirus included!
Added by Rob Johnson on 29 April 2018.
Just watched A touch of Frost episode No Refuge and one of the Mercedes pumps was in a fire scene think it may have been Summerbridge
Added by Ian mc on 26 June 2020.
Added by Ian mc on 26 June 2020.
I wonder what Robin Hood’s Bay are running now? I last saw them in action when I was about twelve. Back then the three man crew seemed to have only bits of uniforms and turned out in an Austin ATV with a trailer pump!
Added by Rob Johnson on 26 June 2020.
Added by Rob Johnson on 26 June 2020.
In 2015 they were running this 2001 Volvo FL6- picture 38365
At a guess they probably have one of these newer Volvo FL6's now like Lythe's as this photo . Always impressed that these two tiny villages near Whitby can both maintain a retained crew.
Added by CraigW on 28 June 2020.
At a guess they probably have one of these newer Volvo FL6's now like Lythe's as this photo . Always impressed that these two tiny villages near Whitby can both maintain a retained crew.
Added by CraigW on 28 June 2020.
No, suppose they found that most calls not off road. I did see their 4x4 Merc pulling a fishermans bogged van off the beach once though!
Added by CraigW on 29 June 2020.
Added by CraigW on 29 June 2020.
Rob. Robin Hoods Bay are now running a Volvo Rescue Pump YJ60 EKL, this is ex York appliance. North Yorkshire have 2 Moor firefighting units based at Kirkbymoorside and Skipton with off road capability.
Added by Paul Warnock on 30 June 2020.
Added by Paul Warnock on 30 June 2020.
It is true that in England it is a bit unusual for a community of only 1, 300 to have a fire station, but of course it is a pretty isolated location. Moorland to the West and the North Sea to the East!
But tiny communities with their own fire station are commonplace in many other countries, here in the US, as well as in France, Germany, Austria, Spain and Poland.
Many go back to the days before motor fire appliances became common in the 1920s. If you had a fire, expecting horse drawn equipment to arrive from miles away in time to be of much help was a pipe dream!
Germany, for example, has a volunteer fire brigade for every 3, 775 people, even after including all the full time fire brigades in larger towns and cities...
Added by Rob Johnson on 02 July 2020.
But tiny communities with their own fire station are commonplace in many other countries, here in the US, as well as in France, Germany, Austria, Spain and Poland.
Many go back to the days before motor fire appliances became common in the 1920s. If you had a fire, expecting horse drawn equipment to arrive from miles away in time to be of much help was a pipe dream!
Germany, for example, has a volunteer fire brigade for every 3, 775 people, even after including all the full time fire brigades in larger towns and cities...
Added by Rob Johnson on 02 July 2020.
We have a lake house in Long Beach, Indiana. This community of 1,150 population has a volunteer fire department with one rescue engine and a second engine tanker. - although we do have a good hydrant network.
We usually get a full response of around a dozen members on these trucks within three to five minutes, and the Michigan City full time department responds as needed with backup from their three stations, which are all within three or four miles of our little community.
Although we do occasionally get a fire, most alarms are road traffic accidents on our narrow winding roads or water rescues, usually involving fishing people out of Lake Michigan...
Added by Rob Johnson on 02 July 2020.
We usually get a full response of around a dozen members on these trucks within three to five minutes, and the Michigan City full time department responds as needed with backup from their three stations, which are all within three or four miles of our little community.
Although we do occasionally get a fire, most alarms are road traffic accidents on our narrow winding roads or water rescues, usually involving fishing people out of Lake Michigan...
Added by Rob Johnson on 02 July 2020.
The other nearby retained station mentioned Lythe has a population of only 377! They are often called to support Whitby.
Added by CraigW on 05 July 2020.
Added by CraigW on 05 July 2020.
If tiny places like Lythe can support a retained pump, I don't understand why we see so many posts where people are saying it is difficult to recruit retained firefighters in the UK.
Many countries have 70% or more of their firefighters in volunteer fire companies, and in most cases these are actually not paid anything at all...
I came across a solution in several Swiss Cantons. If you are an able bodied male between 18 and 42 you get a choice. Either you join your local volunteer fire company - and complete the training and turn out when needed - or you pay a fee to the community each year!
Added by Rob Johnson on 06 July 2020.
Many countries have 70% or more of their firefighters in volunteer fire companies, and in most cases these are actually not paid anything at all...
I came across a solution in several Swiss Cantons. If you are an able bodied male between 18 and 42 you get a choice. Either you join your local volunteer fire company - and complete the training and turn out when needed - or you pay a fee to the community each year!
Added by Rob Johnson on 06 July 2020.
Comment removed at request of Commentor
Similar changes have occurred in most other countries too, but many seem to have been able to persuade employers that work release is a good thing for the community as a whole. They have also placed a lot of emphasis on recruiting the self-employed, retired people, government employees and housewives. as volunteers. In France, for example, around 15% of active volunteer firefighters are female and in some Japanese community volunteer fire companies, as many as half the responders are pensioners...
Another excellent idea - pioneered in Germany - is to have a youth fire service, bringing kids from fourteen to sixteen into the service as trainee volunteers, then having them respond to alarms once they are eighteen.
In areas of France, which have high brush fire loads in the fire season, SDIS engage additional temporary seasonal volunteers who often include numerous senior high school and college seniors, who are trained for brush firefighting - but not structural incidents. In many states here, prison inmates are similarly recruited seasonally to tackle forest fires.
Added by Rob Johnson on 06 July 2020.
Another excellent idea - pioneered in Germany - is to have a youth fire service, bringing kids from fourteen to sixteen into the service as trainee volunteers, then having them respond to alarms once they are eighteen.
In areas of France, which have high brush fire loads in the fire season, SDIS engage additional temporary seasonal volunteers who often include numerous senior high school and college seniors, who are trained for brush firefighting - but not structural incidents. In many states here, prison inmates are similarly recruited seasonally to tackle forest fires.
Added by Rob Johnson on 06 July 2020.
Comment removed at request of Commentor
I understand that North Yorkshire have moved some of their smaller 2/3 person Tactical Response Vehicles (TRV’s) out to retained stations in the rural areas where there is often difficulty getting a full retained crew together to be able to respond in a full size pump. I am not sure which retained stations the TRV’s have gone to, but some villages are not particularly happy with the move as the TRV’s have less capability than a full- size pump and can only attend a limited range of incidents. Hence villages could be waiting longer for a full-size pump to arrive from another station.
Perhaps someone can confirm which retained stations in North Yorkshire now have a TRV instead of a full size pump?
Added by Pete Smith on 08 July 2020.
Perhaps someone can confirm which retained stations in North Yorkshire now have a TRV instead of a full size pump?
Added by Pete Smith on 08 July 2020.
Could a British pensioner join as a retained firefighter? The minimum age for drawing a (private)pension in UK is 55.
Could a 55+ year old be a retained firefighter in UK ? Would he also have to be exceptionally fit ?
Added by CraigW on 08 July 2020.
Could a 55+ year old be a retained firefighter in UK ? Would he also have to be exceptionally fit ?
Added by CraigW on 08 July 2020.
Pete - I heard about this too.
In some of the more remote areas of Scotland, where fire protection would otherwise be non-existant, the fire service relies on numerous unpaid volunteers.
These are also very much the norm in both rural Australia and New Zealand, not to mention most other countries all over the Worlds.
If the population of a town or village were aware that adequate fire response was a matter of volunteer or just wait for appliances to arrive from far way, perhaps there would be more interest in volunteering.
You do not actually need that many volunteers, but - for example - in Austria there are 340, 000 active operational fire fighters, which works out to one per 26 members of the poulation!
My former home town on Long Island, New York, had a force of around 240 operational volunteers for a population of 43, 000. One for every 180 people - which is far less, but still quite adequate.
With five stations, eleven pumps, three aerials, three ambulances and two heavy rescue squad trucks, they respond on average to 1, 900 calls a year, including 700 EMS runs.
Every volunteer is required to respond to at least 25% of calls, so that even on workdays at least 10% of the strength can man the first due units within five minutes or so...
One morning around 11 AM, when I had a small basement fire at my own house, the first unit was there in around seven minutes and - although I did not actually count them - the total attendance must have included around 25 to 30 volunteers. They attended with three pumps, an aerial, a rescue and three chief's cars.
Andy-
I am not blaming anybody here, just illustrating that there are solutions - including in Scotland and in countries which are British Commonwealth members with the same traditions and cultures as the UK.
It seems the British public are being kept in the dark about cutbacks and cost reductions, which are damaging fire service response capabilities, which is very unfortunate.
Perhaps it is time for a movement to face up to the problem, and to start the populations of small towns and villages thinking about firefighting as a civic duty rather than just a part time paid job?
Added by Rob Johnson on 08 July 2020.
In some of the more remote areas of Scotland, where fire protection would otherwise be non-existant, the fire service relies on numerous unpaid volunteers.
These are also very much the norm in both rural Australia and New Zealand, not to mention most other countries all over the Worlds.
If the population of a town or village were aware that adequate fire response was a matter of volunteer or just wait for appliances to arrive from far way, perhaps there would be more interest in volunteering.
You do not actually need that many volunteers, but - for example - in Austria there are 340, 000 active operational fire fighters, which works out to one per 26 members of the poulation!
My former home town on Long Island, New York, had a force of around 240 operational volunteers for a population of 43, 000. One for every 180 people - which is far less, but still quite adequate.
With five stations, eleven pumps, three aerials, three ambulances and two heavy rescue squad trucks, they respond on average to 1, 900 calls a year, including 700 EMS runs.
Every volunteer is required to respond to at least 25% of calls, so that even on workdays at least 10% of the strength can man the first due units within five minutes or so...
One morning around 11 AM, when I had a small basement fire at my own house, the first unit was there in around seven minutes and - although I did not actually count them - the total attendance must have included around 25 to 30 volunteers. They attended with three pumps, an aerial, a rescue and three chief's cars.
Andy-
I am not blaming anybody here, just illustrating that there are solutions - including in Scotland and in countries which are British Commonwealth members with the same traditions and cultures as the UK.
It seems the British public are being kept in the dark about cutbacks and cost reductions, which are damaging fire service response capabilities, which is very unfortunate.
Perhaps it is time for a movement to face up to the problem, and to start the populations of small towns and villages thinking about firefighting as a civic duty rather than just a part time paid job?
Added by Rob Johnson on 08 July 2020.
Andy, I believe there are TRV's at Helmsley, Sherburn and Summerbridge . There may be others as Scarborough are now running two Rescue pumps. Not sure about the the TRV at Harrogate. Rob, there are still 4X4 pumps in North Yorkshire stationed at Grassington, Danby and Reeth They are now MAN Emergency-one. A West Yorkshire version can be found on this site, picture 24214
Added by John Humphreys on 09 July 2020.
Added by John Humphreys on 09 July 2020.
Thanks John.
I was a bit surprised to think they had eliminated 4X4s, because once a fire service has found them to be needed, they rarely go back to 4X2.
Craig:
I don't know about age limits in the UK, but at least one VFD here had a seventy year old grandmother operational as an engine company captain, who recently led a rescue of a child from a smoky bedroom fire. What is known here as a "grab".
Andy:
I am sure that if Scotland, Australia and New Zealand can recruit volunteers for their rural fire services, there must be ways of addressing the obstacles you have come across.
One problem I seem to have heard about was that the FBU was opposed to having its members work alongside unpaid volunteers, as they thought this night lead to a large scale movement to encourage authorities to reduce their numbers.
Added by Rob Johnson on 09 July 2020.
I was a bit surprised to think they had eliminated 4X4s, because once a fire service has found them to be needed, they rarely go back to 4X2.
Craig:
I don't know about age limits in the UK, but at least one VFD here had a seventy year old grandmother operational as an engine company captain, who recently led a rescue of a child from a smoky bedroom fire. What is known here as a "grab".
Andy:
I am sure that if Scotland, Australia and New Zealand can recruit volunteers for their rural fire services, there must be ways of addressing the obstacles you have come across.
One problem I seem to have heard about was that the FBU was opposed to having its members work alongside unpaid volunteers, as they thought this night lead to a large scale movement to encourage authorities to reduce their numbers.
Added by Rob Johnson on 09 July 2020.
Comment removed at request of Commentor
Comment removed at request of Commentor
I seem to remember maybe 5 years ago Market Draytons retained Sub O retired aged about 70.
Added by Neal Glover on 09 July 2020.
Added by Neal Glover on 09 July 2020.
Neal:- Good for him! In some places, retired full-time firefighters are actively recruited to continue as on-call reserves, and as you suggest, a lot of them often continue to stay on the roster for many years.
This helps to augment the numbers of on-call volunteers, and adds a layer of experience and knowledge which can be very useful - just like Andy serving both full time and retained.
When I lived on Long Island, quite a lot of the volunteers in the 190 volunteer fire companies in Nassau County were also full time FDNY members. Of the 343 who sacrificed their lives on 9/11, eight were also volunteers in our local fire service too, and I will never forget going to their memorial services...
Added by Rob Johnson on 10 July 2020.
This helps to augment the numbers of on-call volunteers, and adds a layer of experience and knowledge which can be very useful - just like Andy serving both full time and retained.
When I lived on Long Island, quite a lot of the volunteers in the 190 volunteer fire companies in Nassau County were also full time FDNY members. Of the 343 who sacrificed their lives on 9/11, eight were also volunteers in our local fire service too, and I will never forget going to their memorial services...
Added by Rob Johnson on 10 July 2020.
Seems to me the very high levels of fitness and training exclude many willing volunteers in UK.
Not saying this is a bad thing but......
Added by CraigW on 11 July 2020.
Not saying this is a bad thing but......
Added by CraigW on 11 July 2020.
Craig:
Could be - but you don't really need all that many people, if you consider the total population in a town or village. The rule of thumb in many countries is that you need about three to four times as many people as are required to crew the appliance(s). So a single pump station may need around 15 to 20 volunteers.
These numbers are a bit variable, because availability can run from 25% to 75% based on individual situations, but almost every other country in the World that I have found makes it work...
If people in a community realize that without a volunteer station their fire protection will be seriously compromised, then it is easy to see how they will be motivated to volunteer or motivate their family members or friends to do so...
Added by Rob Johnson on 13 July 2020.
Could be - but you don't really need all that many people, if you consider the total population in a town or village. The rule of thumb in many countries is that you need about three to four times as many people as are required to crew the appliance(s). So a single pump station may need around 15 to 20 volunteers.
These numbers are a bit variable, because availability can run from 25% to 75% based on individual situations, but almost every other country in the World that I have found makes it work...
If people in a community realize that without a volunteer station their fire protection will be seriously compromised, then it is easy to see how they will be motivated to volunteer or motivate their family members or friends to do so...
Added by Rob Johnson on 13 July 2020.
According to UK government statistics, more than 15% of the workforce is self employed, and another 15% are local government employees. This translates into an average of around one fifth of the adult population of a town or village being either self employed or an employee of a local government agency. They don't need an employer to agree to work release to respond to an incident as volunteer firefighters.
This seems like a big enough resource pool to draw from, even without relying on any work release private company employees, students, retirees and/or housewives...
To gauge what is actually possible, Austria has one active operational volunteer firefighter for every 26 inhabitants - and the country has full-time firefighters too!
For many years the UK had an Auxiliary Fire Service, which I believe relied on unpaid volunteers, although of course they - and their Civil Defense colleagues - were not expected to turn out at a moment's notice....
Added by Rob Johnson on 14 July 2020.
This seems like a big enough resource pool to draw from, even without relying on any work release private company employees, students, retirees and/or housewives...
To gauge what is actually possible, Austria has one active operational volunteer firefighter for every 26 inhabitants - and the country has full-time firefighters too!
For many years the UK had an Auxiliary Fire Service, which I believe relied on unpaid volunteers, although of course they - and their Civil Defense colleagues - were not expected to turn out at a moment's notice....
Added by Rob Johnson on 14 July 2020.
Times and attitudes have changed, people are much more unwilling to serve their communities in the way they used too. In many rural communities people don't work locally, they commute, and self employed work hard to build up thier businesses and keep them. Despite what you may read or the stats you quote, you are out of touch with reality in the UK Rob.
Added by on 15 July 2020.
Added by on 15 July 2020.
Mercedes-Benz
Added by John Johnstone on 07 February 2008.