Fire Engines Photos

Another example of a rather common but weird approach to design by firms which built fire appliances on this rather popular Commer chassis in the fifties. First, get rid of the front doors but keep the convenient front step which was so thoughtfully provided by the chassis manufacturer. Then install the hose reels nice and high so only taller crew members can unreel them - and nobody can reel them back in without climbing up over the rear of the body.
We had two Commer water tenders in my home town fire station in Darlington. Both were four door versions, which made it much easier for the OIC and DPO, as well as facilitating the stowage of four BA sets on a half bulkhead.

The older Whitson did have the amazingly high reels too, but it was at least fitted with a step and a grab handle so firemen under seven feet tall could grab the nozzle. On the other hand, the newer Carmichael had the reels at floor level immediately behind the rear doors - very convenient (and possibly specified as a result of a couple of years’ experience of the Whitson).

Added by Rob Johnson on 04 August 2023.

I'd imagine the chassis was supplied with only the front scuttle panel (no sides at all let alone doors) So all the bodywork from the front windscreen backwards had to be built. Many of the requirements being specified by the Brigade themselves regardless of the experience of the supplier.

Added by on 06 August 2023.

Yes, and the famous trio built by Plaxtons of Scarborough did not even use the full factory cowl, but a fiberglass structure which the firm originally developed for their Commer coaches - which were of course their main business activity. I still find it odd that so many Commers of this vintage were built without front doors - it was obviously a way of cutting costs but it did not have any other advantages! I suspect that if chiefs had actually talked to the firemen who used these appliances every day, they might have thought differently about a four door cab?

Added by Rob Johnson on 28 August 2023.

Maybe, but more likely that in those days if you wanted more than just a chassis and front cowl, you'd only have the option of a fixed metal cab (on the Commers and Karrier they were made by British Light Steel Pressings - BLSP also owned by Rootes Group) in most cases being totally unsuitable for conversion into a crew cab. Why pay for a cab that you then need to have crudely butchered just to provide doors. Entry through the rear doors was a proven design although old fashioned, but it worked... Remember theses were first and foremost a lorry chassis, unlike the Dennis products that were purposely designed as fire appliances.

Added by on 02 September 2023.

Northumberland did buy a series of Karrier appliances with the factory four door crew cab, as did some fire brigades in Belgium. This cab was developed primarily for bin wagons, so offered less headroom than most coachbuilt crew cabs, and there are examples on this site which illustrate this. In most European it was standard practice for many years for fire appliances to be built with factory crew cabs, on Mercedes, MAN, Magirus, Berliet, Saviem, Volvo, Renault , Fiat, Scania and other chassis.



The lack of factory crew cabs in the UK was because very few manufacturers offered them, but it did not stop firms like Whitson and Carmichael fabricating four door crew cabs for Commer appliances.

Added by Rob Johnson on 02 September 2023.

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