Fire Engines Photos

Now that these three very big ladders are finally "on the run", have there been any comments about how often they have been deployed and/or whether they are actually proving to be useful? I am also wondering where they are stationed, in relation to the various areas of Greater London where high rise structures are concentrated, as this was the apparent rationale for their acquisition...

Added by Rob Johnson on 09 May 2023.

Rob, LFB seem to be proud of mentioning when they are deployed on their twitter account, if that's any sort of indication! My understanding is they are stationed at Dagenham, Wimbledon and Old Kent Road...which seems to leave a lot of North/West/Central London out of range. Maybe too big for navigating around the old streets too regularly?!

Added by David on 25 May 2023.

Thanks, David. Like many others, I really hope these machines may occasionally turn out to actually be useful, but I still fear they are no substitute for adequate high rise building fire safety regulations and designed in protections. Here in the land of skyscrapers, fire departments vert rarely bother to have aerials over 30 metres, but building codes are pretty strict and well enforced.

Added by Rob Johnson on 25 May 2023.

Rob - These are allocated to Dagenham, Old Kent Road and Wimbledon. The brigade want you to think these allocations are based on high rise risk, but excluding OKR - they aren't. Dagenham has little risk compared to surrounding areas such as north east and south east London, and I don't believe it has been used for it's 64m capability near its own station yet. Same goes for Wimbledon - areas further afield see many more high rises, yet there are very little in Wimbledon. These appliances seem to be based at these stations purely because they will not fit elsewhere.

In my experience as an enthusiast, having spoken to people across the Brigade, the general consensus seems to be that they would be better off being allocated in the high rise hotspots, and in my opinion that would be Tottenham, to cover the high rises of north west and north east London (of which there are hundreds!), Shoreditch to cover central London, the city of London and the East End - again, with hundreds and hundreds of high rises, and Croydon, a separate 'town' in South London, and a large borough covering lots of high rise areas.

I also believe that LFB should be looking into more aerials - either 42m Magirus TLs or 45m Bronto ALPs. These vehicles would be suitable for stations such as Wembley, Forest Hill and Paddington which could do with aerials taller than 32m, but not as gigantic and cumbersome as 64m.

Added by Wilf Weston on 14 June 2023.

Wilf When the Greater London fire district was formed, consolidating surrounding towns (including Croydon) and bits of counties around London, the brigade had 28 TLs. Now it has 13 plus the three jumbos. But the numbers of tall buildings have mushroomed in the meanwhile, and - as Grenfell illustrated only too clearly - the fire and building codes have not kept up with those in many other countries. Here in the states, it has been proven many times over, and at great cost to life and limb, that buying giant ladders and platforms for fire departments is no substitute for having adequate fire and building codes and properly enforcing them. Many cities, including Chicago, bought 45 or 40 meter ladders and never bothered to replace them, and New York never had any longer than 30.

As this process of making high rise buildings safer is a very lengthy game of “ catch up” in London, I agree these three 60 metre ladders (and almost certainly several more over 30 M) need to be positioned where they will be most useful. As we all know, response time is a vital concern in an occupied structure. I had hoped that Grenfell would have brought about much more serous effort with respect to these buildings’ problems, but it does seem the LFB are taking some of the 28 corrective actions which the enquiry recommended. But high rise firefighting is quite different from tackling regular structure fires in buildings with five or six floors, and needs different training and equipment, which we have yet to see being provided.

Added by Rob Johnson on 15 June 2023.

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