Fire Engines Photos

I think the machine on the right is a heavy unit

Added by Neal Glover on 05 December 2020.

You might be right - does not have ATV body - compare with



Added by Petros on 06 December 2020.

By 1907 London was already building new fire stations which were expressly designed for motor appliances only, with no accommodations for horses - and this may have been similar.

Ed:
interesting point. The extension opened late 1906 in an old coachbuilding shop, and the first motors arrived in 1909 so it was designed for horsed appliances originally.

Added by Rob Johnson on 07 December 2020.

It took London - and many other places - into the early 1920s to complete motorizations, so the process of reconfiguring fire stations took a while. It seems LFB were positioning motor pumps and escape vans mainly at stations with comparatively large response areas once their reliability had been established, before extending their fleet into more closely packed inner city stations. By the beginning of WWI around one third of the fleet were already motorized.

Added by Rob Johnson on 08 December 2020.

Looks like a Morris commercial heavy or extra heavy unit (thanks to Alan House, Wheels of Fire)

Added by Peter McCombie on 08 December 2020.

That was my thought as well Peter I hadn't got round to checking Wheels of Fire. My 2nd choice was an early Bedford. Happy Xmas and stay safe.

Added by Neal Glover on 09 December 2020.

Interesting photo, which demonstrates that even three years after the NFS was constituted in 1941 municipal fire brigade appliances continued to be red. Thinking about it, it really did not make much sense to take them out of service and going to the trouble and expense of changing them to grey.

Added by Rob Johnson on 10 December 2020.

The instructions were to only change livery if a repaint was required. It seems the original brigade name was in at least some cases painted out.

Added by Neal Glover on 11 December 2020.

Neal: Do you happen to know why the AFS (and then later NFS) Home Office emergency issue vehicles and trailer pumps were painted grey and not red from the beginning? The grey paint was not associated with fire service vehicles in the 1930s - any more than the dark green color later adopted for post war AFS units.

In Germany, most fire brigades are issued with Federal Government Civil Defense pumpers and other vehicles, but these are intentionally liveried to match the front line units in each brigade. Similarly, Civil Defense vehicles in France are also painted the same red as regular fire service fleets.

Added by Rob Johnson on 12 December 2020.

Rob The thought is that dark battleship grey would identify the fact that he appliances were NOT local authority owned. The grey would be more readily available especially after the outbreak of war. The same reasons apply to the post war Civil Defence Services. If you can get hold of a copy of Wheels Of Fire by Alan House, this tells the story of the war time fire service.


Added by Neal Glover on 13 December 2020.

Thanks Neal. I will try to chase down the book you recommend!

Added by Rob Johnson on 14 December 2020.

The grey was also intended to make the appliances less conspicuous from the air and to the extent of painting the polished parts too in some areas...In Germany (WWII) dark green appliances.

Added by Peter McCombie on 14 December 2020.

Peter: The German dark green livery was introduced when the fire service was nationalized in 1939, placed under the command of the national police and christened the Feuerschutzpolizei. ("Fire protection police force"). At that time all police vehicles including the fire service appliances, were painted police dark green. They also were fitted with blue lights, which were also already a standard police feature. This organization took over full time fire services in 86 cities and also operated nine regiments and five battalions which followed German armed forces into certain occupied countries and provided fire protection to the forces' installations.

The color change was not related to any consideration of visibility from the air. Indeed, most German fire trucks of that era were enclosed types with black fabric roof coverings (like a Dennis F12) whether the bodywork was red or green... After WWII fire services reverted to municipal administrations and the surviving trucks were once again painted red, along with new post war acquisitions. The police forces were also decentralized, but most continued to use the dark green livery for many years after the war.

A similar change in organization (and livery) also took place in Austria at around the same time...

Added by Rob Johnson on 14 December 2020.

I missed the fact that in 1907 Stratford was not included in the area covered by the (then) London Fire Brigade. My 1913 LFB Annual Report notes that a great deal of expansion and renewal/replacement of their 63 land fire stations occurred in the first decade of the 20th century - and several of these modifications were to replace horse stalls by spaces designated to accommodate motor appliances. By that date, 24 of 93 pumpers were motor units, as were 16 of 71 escape ladder vans. Within the following ten years, all horsed appliances were replaced.
Ed: note West Ham FB was only absorbed into London FB 1/4/1965 together with other county boroughs like East Ham and Croydon.

Added by Rob Johnson on 02 September 2021.

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