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Morecame/Lancashire fire and rescue appliance
Fire Engine Photos
No: 39716   Contributor: John Johnstone   Year: 2016   Manufacturer: DAF   Country: United Kingdom
Morecame/Lancashire fire and rescue appliance

Sad to see they have gone to this now standard boring livery and lighting, much prefered the old livery and vector style rotating beacons!
Picture added on 17 March 2016 at 16:55
add commentComments:
Can only agree but at least they are still buying british made chassis, cannot for the love of me understand the reasoning for the lemming like attitude of the scanvolvmercman crowd, local doesnt always make best but in this daf chassis made at leyland trucks it is every bit as good or better so there isnt an excuse, or perhaps I am missing something, its not availability, spares or dealers, it isnt price so why?

Added by Alan Ramsay on 28 March 2016.
Agree fully Alan and I will be interested to see if anyone can answer why we don't buy home made appliances ....

Added by on 30 March 2016.
The dark red is about 1/5 of the cost of the rocket red. No contest. The rocket red faded very badly as well. I think that Leyland is only an assembly plant but not sure. DAF at first were not keen to adapt the chassis for the new exhaust system but they have now agreed an alternative arrandement that doesn't encroach on locker space.

Added by Neal Glover on 30 March 2016.
Cheers for the info Neil shocked at the cost of the paint though madness!

Added by on 31 March 2016.
You only have to look at costs of the Day glow Paint Work on Many Fire Appliance's around the UK Over the Years.. BUCK'S, For a Start as I had to get a quote to get my resprayed, it was cheaper buying another wagon

Added by Dave Todd on 31 March 2016.
The answer is simple. The British truck industry is basically out of business! The brands which dominated the market in the 1960s and 1970s, such as AEC, Albion, Bedford, Commer, Dennis, Dodge, Karrier, Leyland and Shelvoke did not develop any serious products or significant dealer networks to cater to the European market. But DAF, MAN, Mercedes, Iveco, Scania and Volvo all built trucks tailored to British market conditions, and set up very effective distribution and service networks to support them.

The UK truck market just was not large enough by itself for the British firms to survive without selling significant numbers in the rest of Europe, so the manufacturers were either bought out by foreign companies or simply had to shut their doors.

Only a handful of British chassis found their way to Europe with fire engine bodies. The Belgians bought several - mainly Bedford - but Belgium is a very small country. Dennis' sales in Europe were minimal. A few into Belgium, two(!) to Germany, a handful to Prague, and I think just about six to the Netherlands. I do not know of any Merryweather sales in to Europe.

Look at London. For decades LFB had only Merryweather (AEC/Maudslay) and Dennis. Then ERF, Dodge, followed by Volvo and now Mercedes. Call 999 in London and you will get a BMW police car, a Sprinter ambulance and an Atego pumper. Wouldn't it have been nice if a 112 caller in Berlin would now see a Rover police car, an Austin ambulance and a Dennis?

Added by Rob Johnson on 31 March 2016.
I did once see a photo of a Bedford TK - Merryweather TL in I think Moscow or Leningrad. The exception that proves the rule!

Added by Neal Glover on 31 March 2016.
Can't say it would be nice to see an Austin ambulance here it would be somewhat late, my point is Leyland are building in lancashire one of the most popular chassis in the uk , in fact I am sure in thinking the most popular in some classes, this brigade uses them with great success and have done so for many many years, in the global market it doesnt matter the name but its important for our economy , jobs notwithstanding that we use home made chassis, lancs proove you can so why not the rest.

Added by Jim Anderrson on 01 April 2016.
Miss the iluminus orange haha

Added by on 09 April 2016.
Neal - I am guessing your Muscovite Bedford-Merryweather was certainly exported as a used unit. BY the way, there is also an elderly white painted Dennis Sabre on this site, which found its way to Eastern Europe(Ukraine?), but it too only got there after it was pensioned off in the UK.

Good luck to them when it needs spares!

Added by Rob Johnson on 13 July 2016.
you can see the white Dennis in Ukraine at picture #11098

Added by Peter Williams on 14 July 2016.
Saw one of the above DAF pumps recently at Accrington/Hyndburn fire station and was amazed at the equipment and its capabilities (speed-on a blue light about 90mph) totally different to the rubbish Lancs FB gave us in the 70's/80's, why aren't there more of the DAF pumps in use in the UK.

Added by Russell Davies on 21 November 2016.
You do not see more of these excellent British but appliances simply because scania, Volvo, merc have been giving huge discounts to capture this market which they regard as a halo product, anyway its not common for another reason, its built in Britain ! I remember when fleet managers were running around in Saab's and wearing scania jackets , I am not inferring anything but surely this was a bit flagrant. Yes its a shame, I see Dumfries has a couple and they have been mega reliable , very doubtful they will be seen in Scotland with the swedes seemingly top dogs with Scottish fire and red UE, I can remember when we moaned about the dodge cabs being g d, sxanias was introduced in 1996 and it has crap visibility is too high and not wide enough and to top it off they only do 60 mph so yes the question is why?

Added by Donnie maclesn on 23 November 2016.
Ronnie, I don't think Grampians Scanias only did 60? I was told the speed limiter automatically switched off when the blue lights were switched on. I have certainly been overtaken by one that looked way over 60 when I was doing +\-50mph.

Added by Andy on 28 November 2016.
Sorry, but I am led to believe all scottish appliances are limited, no switch off I am afraid

Added by Alan Ramsay on 01 December 2016.
Yes all newer scanias are speed limited in Tayside at least so I assume Scotland, no switch fitted or auto off limiter, 58 mph is your lot , fed up getting overtaken by pedestrians, as the fleet manager is now in charge of Scotland I wouldnt think it will get changed nor will his love for scania and Volvo, man may get a sniff but unlikely.

Added by Donnie maclesn on 08 December 2016.
Yep, no more ton-ups in a perfect Dennis Rapier any more! I've even followed and clocked a Dennis Sabre at 85-90mph on the dual carriageway near my home many moons ago. Sadly now, the vast majority of the UK's fire fleet is made up of cheap, foreign, boring and dangerously slow red bin wagons. Progress? Don't think so.

Added by Yelp Bullhorn on 08 December 2016.
Yelp - unfortunately, like so many other things, it all comes down to pounds and pennies. When I sold ten cheap, cheerful (and ugly) Ford D series/HCB water tenders to Gloucestershire in 1966 I was told by the transport officer that their fabulous RR engine Dennis pumps were actually no more reliable than their Commers - but they cost a lot more to buy and the spares were astronomically expensive!

Interestingly, DAF is actually a Netherlands brand, but it is by no means dominant in that country either when it comes to fire appliances, where MAN, Mercedes, Iveco, Volvo and Scania all sell very well, too.

Cost pressures are not only defining what fire services are buying. How about a Vauxhall Astra diesel police interceptor!

Added by Rob Johnson on 09 December 2016.
A guy who works for E-one (UK) once said in a fire engine group they as body builders hated the Dennis chassis ESP the Rapier to build a appliance on and said Volvo was the best! Needless to say he wasn't agreed with.

Added by John Johnstone on 10 December 2016.
Mr Johnstone , Leyland trucks who make the daf cf chassis for worldwide customers in both right and lefthand drive were formed after the rover groups truck division merged with daf after the break UK of rover with daf taking enough stock to be the controlling partner , when daf went bankrupt five years later a management buy out resulted in the name reverting back to Leyland trucks , it was acquired by paccar a few years later but remained an autonomous truck producer, the lf chassis is designed and manufactured for worldwide use in Leyland lancs , it was the international truck of the year upon introduction, it has only the daf name to aid sales worldwide and has not a lit to do with that company although Leland do make all two axle right CF 75/85 daf models and assemble all right hand drive XF models for daf bv , the lf and cf models are the most popular in their class in the UK , u still don't understand why no more are fire appliances though.

Added by Alan Ramsay on 15 December 2016.
We got delivery of a Ford chassid CFE body P/L, in 1977, it was not as fast as the Dennis Rapier above but we did get 80mph out of it on the A59 bypass going to Whalley

Added by Russell Davies on 15 December 2016.
Different truck manufacturers have always had varying levels of interest in investing in chassis modifications for fire appliance applications.

It is a very small market in the UK, and companies tend to have had an inconsistent approach, mainly influenced by how much modification was needed, and the associated costs.

Take Ford, for example. When I joined Ford in 1966 we had just launched the D series - and the old Fordson Thames Trader was barely used as a fire appliance chassis, except for a few export units.

Based on the success of the TK in fire service applications, we thought the D series would be a much better competitor, and it was. But Bedford had a five year lead on us, so the D series numbers never approached theirs, and then working the Perkins V8, transmission and PTO into the 13 ton version was very expensive.

When the Cargo replaced the D series, it was just too expensive to convert, and Ford dropped out of the business.

The Cargo is still used in Brazil, but it is a domestic build there, along with Scania and VW/MAN, which gives it a price advantage despite the conversion costs.

Commer was very popular during the 1950s, but gradually lost market share because of engine sourcing problems as customers were increasingly looking for more and more horsepower, and had to turn to Perkins too.

Bedford, with a strong market share, could afford to add more powerful Rolls Royce petrol and AEC diesel options, both of which involved a lot of chassis modification.

One main reason for the success of MAN, Mercedes, Volvo and Scania in the UK was that they had more powerful in-house diesel engines "off the shelf", which required minimal chassis re-engineering.

They also had a long history of supplying fire appliance chassis to many European markets, which meant that the additional engineering and component costs could be amortized over a much larger number of units. This was especially true for those who were selling into Germany, which has a much larger market than any other European country - because every town and village has a volunteer fire company!

Added by Rob Johnson on 25 February 2017.
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