Fire Engines Photos

What is happing with these now?

Added by Tom on 25 December 2013.

I was working in the Tech Services Section of HF&RS when we were presented with the CARP project. In was to be a regional project (the three Yorkshires & Humberside). To date I have read many differing accounts of the CARPs and their subsequent demise to a lesser level of operational response and never, ever have I heard a proper account. In view of this could we all be careful with our theories and accounts as some of them can offend. If you're not sure it's the truth please just say. Thank you

Added by Glenn Ramsden on 25 December 2013.

Interesting Photo as I thought they were being 'phased out' due to safety issues.

Added by Richard Aston on 25 December 2013.

Perhaps you would like to give your side of the argument Glenn..having spoken personally with the then CFO of Humberside its a fact they were designed to save money by cutting appliances and therefore crews/wages...it would appear little thought was given to the practical application of such an appliance ? Humbersides first CARP was destined for Grimsby to replace a wholetime pumping appliance yet ended up at Scunthorpe, years overdue, ....as a retained crewed appliance ! simply replacing an ageing TL at that station and doing away with the TL crews...its interesting to note the TL or HP could have been replaced for considerably less than the CARP cost ! (both initially and after modifications).

Humbersides second CARP (destined for Hull to replace a K reg ALP ) was cancelled very early in the process...the ALP is still on the run some six years later !

The CFO of South Yorkshire has since said ' if you asked the question - would we go down that line again (CARPS) ? the answer would be no'

Added by Rick Loudon on 26 December 2013.

With it being such an ambitious project, Humberside (and as far as I know Sth Yorks) had these CARP's built in such a way that if the project failed, they could just be used as aerial appliances (albeit hugely over spec.). Running as aerials carry much less equipment they do sit well within the weight limits from the UK road and as far as I know are good aerial appliances

Added by Glenn Ramsden on 27 December 2013.

Most 'purpose built' ariels are also good ariel appliances Glenn...to say the CARP's were built in such away so that if 'the project failed' they would be used as standard ariels seems to be a rather excessive statement (considering the 'cash strapped society' we live in ? We all know a standard ariel would have cost at least a third less than the CARP (before modifications were attempted to make it legal on the roads)..However as I've already said and, as Frank told me they had already achieved their primary aim of cutting jobs and therefore saving money !

Added by Rick Loudon on 03 January 2014.

I am no aerial expert but have been a firefighter for more than thirty years (months left). I remember the first alps coming on and thought what a great great piece of kit , good height , stable platform to work from and great reach from knuckle to cage to go over the top of roofs to catch the middle or far into a high building. Then came the carp , great idea -to save money , that is the only really great thing about them , they are too high when in use as an aerial and need a ladder to get a ladder so to speak , I remember before a drop ladder was fitted someone -not me left his helmet in the drivers seat oops then put the appliance to work and guess what , weel there you are and that was on the training ground . The basics are good don't get me wrong , its the fact they are all right at some things but not great at anything that the problems come from , no reach , not a lot of height , use as a rescue pump , ok but due to weight its a bit unwieldy to throw around (Glasgow 9 mph on roundabouts or omg) or as a pump the same , they don't save money and are proving none too reliable but that would get better I am sure. Thing is when you get to this size you are getting away from fire appliance chassis however designed originally and are using bin lorry or tanker chassis which were not designed as high reach, do not have the digital interface nor the speed or handling. Now these are my views as a working firefighter with some experience in a brigade that is happy to use retained personnel on an alp and why not, that's another story for another day , ps I am day manned in Strathclyde.

Added by Danny Murison on 12 January 2014.

Hi everbody!By using the M-B Econic chassis, the booms sits lower.IAW, the weight is lower.BUT, it looks a bit odd with a doublecab!!

Anders F. Sweden.

Added by Anders Fallström on 29 July 2014.

Glenn thinks they are good aerial appliances , I assume he isnt a firefighter or has never been on a roof , buildings are not all flat faced and less than 6 floors high!!

Added by Alan Macdonald on 30 July 2014.

Danny - quite right, this Econic started life as a bin lorry chassis and was as such never intended to incorporate a crew cab, especially one with decent headroom!

And although this tandem axle version is also used as a low profile choice for 32 Meter aerial platforms in various countries, it is very obviously too big and cumbersome for everyday use as rescue pumper.

Added by Rob Johnson on 10 April 2018.

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