Fire Engines Photos

Hello Keith
The vehicle is certainly a Dennis with a New World style body. The front hubs and wheel discs give it away. The Fire Pump is a Dennis No 2 500 gpm model.
I am not sure if it is a Dennis New World Light Four pre war chassis, I think it might well be an early post war F1, a chassis list should give an answer.
A larger post war Dennis is poking out of the Fire Station doors in the background posibly an F2 or F3.
Hope this helps

Added by Mike Hebard on 22 August 2012.

This is a Dennis Light 6 - chassis number 7875 - which was actually new to the brigade on 1938.

Added by Ian Moore on 22 August 2012.

Ian, how can you be so certain? If it wasn't for the lack of the 'Aclet' badges on the side it could have been the 'Aclet'.

Added by Barry on 22 August 2012.

The wheels give it away was a Dennis, Barry, and the cab as having been their Light series. You mention that if it wasn't for the lack of "Aclet" badges, ir could have been that. Remember that "The Aclet" was a Light 4, the only difference between that and the Light 6 being 2 cylinders in the engine, this being what was ordered by Durban.

Added by Ian Moore on 23 August 2012.

Ian, I am still a little perplexed by your last comment. From the above picture, what are the characteristics which identify it as as Light Six rather than a Light Four? Unless you can read the tyre wall and say that they aren't 6.50 x 20's I don't know how the 'wheels give it away'.



Added by Barry on 23 August 2012.

The reason I say "Light 6" rather than "Light 4" is that the Dennis database - which came from the manufacturer - confirms that the brigade never had a Light 4, but they did have a Light 6. I would also add that Mike's F1 point should also be taken into account. Durban did have one F1, delivered in 1948, and this of course came in two body styles, of which this was one. As regards his mention of the machine in the background, they also had four F2 jobs and a couple of F3s. The position of the headlights on this would seem to suggest it as an example of the F2 jobs they had

Added by Ian Moore on 24 August 2012.

Good morning Barry and Ian
Looking at detail on the photo the bodywork is not the same as the prewar light 4s preserved in the UK. The UK machines have the top of the bodyline running rearwards in line with the bottom of the window aperture or the door, the bodywork behind the door is much taller in the photo.
The wheel nut guard appears to be of the early postwar type with a bit of dishing, the prewar ones, if I recall correctly were much flatter.
The front wing appears to go a long way down at the front also a trait of the postwar F1.
I dont have to hand a postwar chassis list, did Durban or South Africa get any F1s?
I agree with Barry, from the photograph it is impossible to decide on Light 4, Light 6 or postwar. It will take further investigation into chassis lists AND official Dennis photos.
Best wishes to all

Added by Mike Hebard on 24 August 2012.

May I suggest that the Dennis in the background is an F3 rather than an F2. I'm under the impression that the F2 had the headlights in the front guards and the F3 had theirs mounted separate as in this case.Apart from this the only difference is in the motors fitted, Meadows in the case of the F3 and B80 in the case of the F2

Added by John Walker on 24 August 2012.

Isn't this interesting! As John (from the far side of the world) says, the machine in the background is definitely an F3 by appearance and not an F2. However, how many of us realised that F3's still had the Meadows engine?

Ian says "the Dennis records confirms that the brigade never had a Light 4" - perhaps not from new, but the Aclet is confirmation that they did in later years. Finally, tyre size. Both my Light Fours (The Oakham and Uppingham Pump Escape and the New World Aclet) originally sat on 6.50 x 20 tyres which were changed to 7.50 x 20's as the original size became less available.

Added by Barry on 25 August 2012.

Dennis's own photographic records show that they manufactured an F.1 around 1950 and that this had a New World body. At the same time they delivered an F.3 and later, in 1956, an F2.
They also list a Light 6 delivered in 1937 but no mention of body-style.
I have a feeling the painted-out lettering was done on the photo and not on the appliance but I may be wrong.

Added by Michael Bissett-Powell on 25 August 2012.

Hi,
I confirm that the photo is original and that painting out was done on the machine itself.

Vey interesting looking at the comments. I am trying to find our official records but not having much luck.

We still have three F2 appliances all for restoration, one open cab and two closed all with headlights mounted in mudguards.

Regards

Added by Keith Lowes on 27 August 2012.

The Dennis looks very similar to the Monsanto Chemicals F1 in body style, so is it the Durban F1? I think I will rest my case !

Best wishes to all

Added by Mike Hebard on 27 August 2012.

Barry, Regarding your "Ian says "the Dennis records confirms that the brigade never had a Light 4" - perhaps not from new, but the Aclet is confirmation that they did in later years" : Don't forget that the machine subject of this photo is DURBAN, whereas "Thew Aclet" served with DURHAM, having been new to Bishop Auckland in 1941. Finally, I fully concede that the Dennis in the bvackground is an F3. The Meadows engine was the sole mechanical feature that set it apart from the F2. The error in describing it as an F2 was mine.

Added by Ian Moore on 27 August 2012.

Ian, yes, a quick glance at what appears to be a typical Britih station back yard, a Dennis standing there and Durban is Durham! I should not skip over the words so quickly and jump to invalid conclusions!

Editor: And further discussions please by private e-mail. Thank you very much.

Added by Barry. on 27 August 2012.

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