Fire Engines Photos

Hi Andrew, this is a Dennis F8 with bodywork by miles. The reg number certainly indicates a welsh brigade.

Added by Matt Ireland on 27 July 2012.

Yes its a Dennis F8/Miles and had the distinction of being the last operational F8 in the UK - only coming out of service in the last three or four years ! - replaced I believe by a smaller appliance.

It was at BICC (British Insulated Copper Cables) at Wrexham - prior to that it was new to Denbigh and Montgomeryshire Fire Service.

I have LUN 671 (picture 2309) which is a Dennis bodied appliance new to British Celanese Ltd also at Wrexham.

The two tone horns are piped/wired through the apertures where the orange flashers were prior to a blue light being fitted !

Added by Rick Loudon on 27 July 2012.

EUN 560D also survives a series 11A Landrover that British Celanese bought new - I have a picture but it is not my copyright !

Added by Rick Loudon on 27 July 2012.

Allocated to Llangollen in 1954. Replaced in 1975 when Llangollen recieved a new ERF 84RF/ERF ERF firefighter WrL HEY244N. Ended her days as Rick say's at BICC on the Wrexham Industrial estate. Now lives in a motor museum near Denbigh.

Added by Andy Middleton on 27 July 2012.

Is that the original radiator grille? If so, I would have thought that Dennis could have made an effort to do something a little more elegant. Most appliances in 1954 had a rather less mosquito netting look, including the other Alfred Miles trucks which had the same cowl.

Added by Rob Johnson on 28 July 2012.

Rob.....Dennis had no imput......Alfred Miles designed and built the bodywork......they did quite a few, many for Northumberland FB

Added by Barrie Green on 28 July 2012.

Yes indeed, Barrie. Dennis delivered the chassis to Miles, and that was their part on the matter ended. So far as Northumberland is concerned, we were the largest customer of these things, having ten of them from some 30 built. Durham had 3, and West Hartlepool had one, so the North East was only one short of having half of those constructed !

Added by Ian Moore on 29 July 2012.

Compared to their Bedford J series offerings, with their chrome trim surrounding the triangular grille, this looks unfinished and cheap. My question is whether this look was the original appearance of the Miles-Dennis F8?

Added by Rob Johnson on 29 July 2012.

Rob,
Take a look at picture 2305 - this is my Dennis F8/Miles its not really any different to LUN 354 trim wise but certainly does not appear 'unfinished' - perhaps its because the Dennis badge is missing and the brightwork has'nt been polished - Ian I'm a little uneasy about the Northumberland Miles /F8 being referred to as ' a thing' - you'll be getting a certain 'Commer/Miles man' chastising you !

Added by Rick Loudon on 29 July 2012.

I note also the roller shutters are flat finish on this appliance - again compare with picture 2305 this was the standard Miles locker design - Northumberland had one though, (HNL 403) with this style - seemingly as a result of the appliance being damaged in an RTA during its service

Added by Rick Loudon on 29 July 2012.

Yes, it was, Rob.

Added by Ian Moore on 29 July 2012.

Sorry to disagree, but in my opinion, a Dennis chassis, a Miles body, a Rolls Royce engine, what a great combination.

Added by Paul Stevens on 29 July 2012.

Alfred Miles sales literature at the time referred to their coachwork as 'aircraft frame construction' -( not surprisingly as they were a subsiduary of the Hawker Siddeley Aviation Company) the all aluminium construction gave a considerable weight saving in the chassis (over a ton on a standard F8) thereby giving a better power to weight ratio - they were at the time very modern in design - I agree with Paul a perfect combination ! - but then I am biased having owned mine for 24 years so far - 2 years to go and I'll have had it as long as Northumberland did !

Added by Rick Loudon on 30 July 2012.

Thing! How dare the man!!!!Doesn't know quality British design when he sees it> nice photos. Ron

Added by Ronald Henderson on 30 July 2012.

Ian, I rest my case !!

Added by Rick Loudon on 30 July 2012.

Have a look at picture 20459. This shows a slightly different take on the same design. Note how the chrome bumper and the addition of normal doors on the front lift the look of the appliance.

Added by Matt Ireland on 30 July 2012.

Hi Rick - I thought you must have had yours for quite some time now. They were a reliable appliance too, as you know we had one on each of the ten retained stations. As regards HNL 403, I reckon the only reason it was rebuilt was because of its young age at the time it rolled , many a brigade would have written it off.
Forgot to mention - Sorry about my use of the word "thing" !

Added by Ian Moore on 31 July 2012.

Hi Matt:
I agree with what you say about the unit in picture 20459, and I also think the black grille is a vast improvement.
Does anyone know why Miles almost always built these F8s and Commers, both of which were full forward-control chassis, without front doors? How many of their own F8s would Dennis have sold, if they had welded the front doors shut?
Another question for our F8 Miles experts - did the reduced weight permit a 400 gallon tank (JCDD requirement for "water tender"), or did they have same 200 or 300 gallon tank offered by Dennis on "their" F8s?

Added by Rob Johnson on 31 July 2012.

Thats Ok Ian - my comment was tongue in cheek and designed to set Ronnie going !! yes 24 years it only seems like yesterday when I peered over the wall in Holmfirth and first set eyes on it !

Matt - it seems a debate has started now - the lack of a front door definatly makes the Miles F8 a PIG to work on easily - however, the addition of that door in my opinion makes the lines of the appliance look 'cluttered' - the beauty of the original design is the lack of a blind spot - it was also very difficult to get in that front door - I note a 'step ring' is fitted to the front wheel which makes it look cumbersome - as for the mirrors ? well I'll say no more !!

Added by Rick Loudon on 31 July 2012.

When sitting on the F8 miles crew seat, does the floor move independantly? The Commer has this feature, the seat being mounted to the cab rear rather than the floor. My Uncle recently recalled riding in a Bedford S Miles with the same.

Added by Paul Stevens on 31 July 2012.

Rob,
If Dennis' had 'welded the front doors shut' (or more correctly screwed them shut) they would have had a completly unworkable appliance as the front and rear cabs are seperated by a solid half height bulkhead - I guess designed to add strength and rigidity to the timber framed - plywood lined - aluminium clad body - thereby preventing crew access from the rear to the front and vice - versa !
The Miles body does not have this obstruction between the front and rear cab - thereby doing away with the need for front doors and giving a far more spacious cab (allegedly my F8 turned out on more than one occassion in Seahouses with a crew of 12 - yes 12 )

In answer to the question about tank sizes - all 10 Northumberland F8's had 400 gallon tanks but, they were originally ordered with the same rear body style as LUN 354 but minus the fire pump and carrying a wartime pump from a Morris Sigmund trailer pump - semi permanently plumbed into the water tank by a flexible coupling - they also towed another Morris Sigmund trailer pump for extra or open water supplies - this was all changed in the late 1960's when all 10 were returned to the factory to have the rear bodywork enclosed and two Coventry Climax FWMP's fitted.
It follows if they could be fitted with a 400 gallon tank (for full water tender specification) they could also have smaller tanks to suit other needs - The Leeds City New World F8's only had 100 gallon tanks as they were 'city appliances' and deemed never to be far away from a hydrant.

I'm not knocking the 'proper F8' as many people call them (I have two myself) but the Miles F8 is rarer and just as good in my opinion !

Added by Rick Loudon on 31 July 2012.

No the crew cab is a completly seperate build from the rear body !

Added by Rick Loudon on 31 July 2012.

Hi Rick, I hear you regarding the mirrors but I think they're only there because it was being used as a driver trainer. Picture 25540 shows my next acquisition, which was the sister machine and is fitted with the normal size, and useless, mirrors!

Added by Matt Ireland on 31 July 2012.

Next aqquisition Matt ? are you still after it ? -I've driven my F8 from home in Scunthorpe to Seahouses in Northumberland (85 miles south of Edinburgh)and back, and in the same month from Scunthorpe to Guildford (50 miles north of the South coast)and back and never had a problem with the small original mirrors - you just learn to adapt ! modern mirrors on vintage appliances just don't work aesthetically !

I have to say I drive the length and breadth of the country now and often drive down a road and think to myself ' I brought the F8 here 15 years ago' - I must have been mad !

Added by Rick Loudon on 31 July 2012.

Thank you for the make correction, the chap I spoke to thought it was a Bedford.
Anyone looking for a project? TTL I understand for sale on Anglesey. AEC Chassis (I think) from the 30's.

Added by Andrew Wright on 01 August 2012.

Ex Denbigh & Mongomeryshire. New to them December 1954 at Wrexham & transfered to Llangollen in 1969



Added by Ken Reid on 05 April 2013.

I was an Apprentice Mechanic in the garage @ BICC Wrexham from 1981-1985 and worked on this very vehicle as part of my training.....great to see the old girl again ......thanks for sharing :-)

Added by Jeff Jones on 19 February 2014.

My pleasure Jeff. ;)

Added by Andrew Wright on 21 March 2014.

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