Fire Engines Photos

I think these 'small fire units' may signal the end of the traditional Fire Service as we know it in the UK as they replace a pumping appliance.

Added by Alan Smith on 21 May 2012.

No way we will still need the big ones for the kit a ladders, and the big jobs.

Added by Mark Whiteley on 21 May 2012.

The conversion here is by Pickup Systems of Bacup who have done similar small fire or rescue units for Shropshire; Warwickshire; Tyne and Wear. There is a company website with further details.

Added by Peter Williams on 18 August 2012.

I hear a rumour that Grimsby Peak's Lane may be getting one of these and losing the second pump

Added by James Thompson on 07 October 2012.

As Alan says in the first comment - the start of the end of the traditional British Fire service and all because of a desire to cut costs !

Added by Rick Loudon on 07 October 2012.

These small "minor alarm" or "first response" units are very common in some European countries.

The concept is to actually improve fire and rescue coverage, by avoiding sending full-size trucks with full crews to minor incidents, and keeping them available to respond to more serious situations. Some European brigades have identified that 80% of more of all calls can be handled by a FRU with a two or three person crew, and simultaneous alarms are a major problem in big cities at certain times of day.

But this strategy is only effective if dispatchers are fully trained, and the SOP is to send a full alarm assignment if there is any doubt about what is happening.

In Germany, where the FRU has been around for twenty years, these trucks have steadily grown in size, as more items have become considered necessary to handle small fires, rescues and special service calls. Most of the newer units are either 5 ton Sprinters or - more commonly - 8 ton Varios.

As UK brigades start to introduce them, I think they will find that really small vehicles - like this Toyota - will turn out to be too small to be really useful. This is how things got started in other countries, but there is no reason we cannot learn from them and avoid the same mistakes.

One German solution has been to instal a self-contained one-seven (or similar) CAFS system, which can in fact handle a decent size fire. These have also grown from around 400 liters to 800 or more. The FRU also carries ladders, hydraulic rescue equipment, lighting, electric deep lift pump, hazmat equipment and BA sets for the crew.

It will be interesting to see how long it takes for UK brigades to catch up.

Added by Rob Johnson on 08 October 2012.

Good point Rob I noticed that Darley have come out with a Ford F550 designed to replicate most of the benefits of a larger rig such as pumping capacity and hose carrying but on a smaller chassis producing significant running and service cost savings....to be frank I would agree that the majority of fire calls can be handled by trucks such as these during my time I often thought a small unit would do the job in most cases....but agree the Toyota is too small and lacks the carrying capacity that will be required as experience will dictate .Big reduction in accidents when using the smaller trucks has been noted despite posting much quicker response times. But your right no point sending a small Rig when you've got flames issuing from a 4 storey commercial... call operator training vital here - although I recall one 4x4 pump was able to set into a remote canal and supply a holding jet which turned out to be a building saver . This concept has been around for donkeys years but what is changing is the improvement in the vehicles themselves the advent of CAFS and fire prevention ....lets face it most fires caught early enough can be contained with modest resources...its when not reported or when there has been an explosion or chemical incident that you start off big ...CAFS is the game changer for these smaller units

Added by Gary bolton on 09 October 2012.

Gary - I am a total supporter of CAFS, and have seen how effective these systems are both here in the US and in many European countries. In "my" fire service, every truck would be equipped with CAFS.

Unfortunately, it seems that it is unpopular with the UK environmental agencies, and British fire services buy CAFS equipped units only selectively and rather rarely as a result.

German fire services (and German environmental agencies) seem to love CAFS, which is a formulation very similar to domestic dishwashing liquid, and does not seem particularly threatening. I guess the UK fire chiefs will need to start lobbying for CAFS, because it is a winner for them, their firefighters and the people they protect. CAFS has been used for more than a decade now, and is well past the experimental stage.

On a more general note, I find it really surprising in this global era that there is so little international sharing of knowledge and expertise between fire services in different countries; it seems every country's fire service has to make its own mistakes and then to hopefully (and sometimes very slowly) learn from them.

Added by Rob Johnson on 09 October 2012.

I go back to my original comment as Humberside have just announced that they are replacing FOUR pumping appliances with these things to save money

Added by Alan Smith on 01 February 2014.

Well said Alan...they also say two are going to replace two full size pumping appliances at Cleethorpes and Waltham each therefore effectively reducing these stations to 'first attendance' stations (stand outside and wait until a full sized appliance arrives from another station) as they only have a crew of two...and they're going to 'merge' Cromwell Road and Peakes Lane in Grimsby and remove a pump !..can any one tell me how you merge two fire stations at opposite sides of a town ?

Added by Rick Loudon on 01 February 2014.

Whilst I do find this site fascinating, I don't see the need to bring the politics of any fire service over to it.

These appliances are very interesting and have played a key part in fire fighting in other parts of the world very successfully for many years but I prefer not to read about personal political thoughts on here...rant complete thank you!

Added by Glenn Ramsden on 01 February 2014.

Alan - either they have made a really bad calculation or they have hopefully reviewed fire coverage and incident occurences in grear detail and decided on a course which makes sense.

In either case, I am however doubtful about the usefulness of these Toyota pickups because of the limitations on what they can carry. When I was in Kuwait I was CEO of the Toyota importer and we sold literally thousands of these in both two and four door versions - with both rear and four wheel drive.

They are very tough, reliable and the 4X4 are pretty good off road too, but we could never get the Kuwait Fire Service to buy them for first responder duties, because they were just too small. They bought Chevrolet, GMC and Dodge units for this job.

FRUs do have a role if they are assigned properly, but something this small is much too limiting to be as useful as an 8 ton Vario or IVECO.

Added by Rob Johnson on 01 February 2014.

Glenn, the comments made by myself are not, as you say, 'personal political points' but are in fact a response to the comments made by Alan Smith ( and others) with regard to what is happening to the fire service in general and are simply a repetition of what has been widely reported in the local press here in Humberside....whilst the site, (in my opinion) is predominantly a picture site ...hence the name !...it is through individuals responses both personal and professional, that a very accurate record of the history of the fire services around the world is formed....some comments may not be to your liking, but, if the editors ( who do an excellent job) deem a comment is acceptable then they publish it...they will, if required bring a subject to an end !

We need to record all aspects of the historical events by both picture and comment. There are many people who post on here who can give valuable knowledge of individual happenings/occurrences in their own specialist field whether it be appliances, equipment, stations or some other aspect which, without that important' missing piece of information being offered would be 'lost in time' forever.

Added by Rick Loudon on 02 February 2014.

Rob, Is the Toyota Tundra Pickup comparable to the Ford, Dodge, G.M.C. full size pickups.

Added by Les Davis on 02 February 2014.

Well, time to add a comment too although I try to stay out of discussions as much as possible.

I agree with both Glen and Rick.
That is, there are frequently personal opinions coming through and politics have no place here.
But if a FS is replacing a particular type of appliance with another then it is fair to discuss the benefits and downsides of the change.

With regard to moderating and bringing a subject to an end, I have rejected quite a few comments and wouldn't mind if we stopped using words like 'bean counters' and so on :)

Added by Marcel Gommers - editor on 03 February 2014.

Thank you for your thoughts Marcel !

Added by Rick Loudon on 03 February 2014.

Les. Yes the Tundra is a full-size pickup. But when I was most recently working with Toyota it had only been released for sale in the Americas. It was not offered in Europe, mainly because of fuel consumption.

Added by Rob Johnson on 03 February 2014.

Lets put the union thoughts aside and be sensible , for small jobs its ideal , why send a pump to a bin or a grass verge , its easier in theside streets to use one of these , lets stop being negative and explore the best way to use these handy little appliances , my biggest worry is why aren't they on a Land Rover chassis , not a lot in it cost wise and they last longer.

Added by Alan on 04 February 2014.

Thanks Marcel...

Added by Glenn Ramsden on 04 February 2014.

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