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481 Grampian Fire Service Buckie
Fire Engine Photos
No: 2923   Contributor: Hendo   Year: 2006   Manufacturer: Scania   Country: United Kingdom
481 Grampian Fire Service Buckie

SV 02 EMK 481 is a Scania 230bhp with the unusual 10 crew cab set up. Only 2 other appliances in Grampian share this.

481 is Stationed at Buckie Staiton 48 in Grampian.
Picture added on 07 May 2007
This picture is in the following groups
Grampian Fire and Rescue Services, United Kingdom
add commentComments:
all new scania appliances in grampian carry the cp31 10 man crew cab.

Added by Martin Ross on 11 May 2007.
Yes thats correct, but all are set up as a six man cab apart from the appliances stationed at Ballater (dennis sabre) Turriff (Scania) and (Buckie) Scania

Added by Hendo on 26 May 2007.
That is a beauitful looking truck

Added by Nick Eaton on 29 October 2007.
hey, im kieran and my dad is a firefighter in grampian and drives the fire trucks. he drives an identical truck but with a Six man crew cab. call sign 751, station 75(Inverurie). love fire trucks. im 16 and hope to join grampian fire and rescue in the year 2011. thanks.p.s do you have more pictures from grampian?

Added by Kieran Marr on 07 September 2008.
I need to ask...simply because I'm in the Fire Service Canada......

WHY do all the appliances in the UK seem to carry such large ground ladders?......the ones mounted on the side body work I can understand.....but what is the very large three fly section one?..13 m?......WHY would each appliance need one?.....In North America the most commonly carried Ground ladder for Pumping appliances would be a 24 ft. extension...a 14 ft. roof ladder and a 10 ft. folding attic ladder....additional ground ladders are carried on Aerial appliances along with the main ladder or elevating platform......

Could not one out of say, every 4 appliance carry a 13m ladder?....would that not still allow for use when needed? up a ton of space in the center of the appliance!...

Other than that I am HIGHLY impressed with the small stature and highly functional design of the UK appliances!.....If I could find a company that would build them for me ( Fire Chief of a Department) in Left hand drive with a North American pump ( 1250 GPM's....with 750 to 1000 Gal Tank)..... I'd be all over them......seems light small, manouverable and capable.....Our appliances here In Canada are of the US can be seen by the pics on the site.....simply OVERKILL...too big, TOO heavy, TOO expensive, take up to much room, use too much fuel......

Well Done UK.....I'd SERIOUSLY like to see someone import a Canadianised Version!..even the CARP's/ARP's!

Added by Jay on 15 July 2011.
i think there are many reasons for the big ladder here in grampian. 1. fire fighters are trained to use them in different situations. 2. there are many tall industrial buildings in our area. 3. there are many areas with 3 more storeys in them. and lastly although grampian has about 40 stations, only 5 have full time crews, therefore the others have to be as self sufficient as possible as it can take at least 20min for backup to arrive.

Added by Martin Ross on 17 July 2011.
Not every appliance in the UK carries 13.5m ladders, some carry 10.5m as their main ladder. Also, they carry these long ladders because we do things differently here than in the North America- we don't need aerials to vent buildings all the time like you do in North America. Aerials in the UK are not large in numbers and most fire service's only have a couple.

Added by David Jones on 17 July 2011.
Have to say in this Health and Safety obsessed age, the 13.5m ladder appears to be on borrowed time. Often now UK crews are riding 4, as opposed to 5 or 6 crew, it uses a whole crew to deploy a ladder. Working at height regs have altered the way even chimney fires are dealt with, some FRS's using Aerials on Chimneys from above. In all honesty, my opinion is that the 10.5 or 9m ladder will become more common as a main ladder. During my service, we slipped a 135 twice in anger, triple ex or 9m ladders we used on a regular basis. It seems a lot of cost for not much use in this accountant led age, albeit a wrong move if lost from appliances.

Added by Gary Simpson on 17 July 2011.
Hey Gary you say it takes the whole crew to deploy a 13.5 metre ladder because the crew are only an officer driver and 2 men. Just curious, when you joined the fire brigade, how many crew was a regular pump staffed with as a minimum and how many crew did it turn out with as a maximum? With thanks from Tiger.

Added by Tiger on 17 July 2011.
I think Grampian have standardised on 13.5m ladders on all their pumping appliances now. The First pumps used to have 13.5m and on 2 pump stations the 2nd pump had 10.5m ladders they all carry 13.5m ladders now.

Added by Andy on 18 July 2011.
so true I think we have to remember that these ladders can be used for more than just rescueing people from height.

Added by Martin Ross on 18 July 2011.
Chief Jay:
If you a do a bit of research I think that you will find that Crimson Fire make exactly the type of appliance that you want, based on the Spartan Furion chassis. In fact, the town of Kirkville, NY purchased an engine which would seem to be exactly what you are looking for. Smaller than the typical NA engine co., rear mounted pump, 1500gpm pump, 850 gal. tank and it even looks like a toaster.

This rig would also give your firefighters far easier step-in/out heights as the Euro rigs are ridiculously high off the ground which a major part of the instability of their CARP appliances. I would also propose that this would have a longer working life than the typical UK engine as Spartan produces a very durable product.

Added by TBone on 19 July 2011.
Tiger, when I joined we rode 6 max on a 1 pump station or 4 minimum (3 on permission of control with an assisting appliance sent on), we then went to 5 max. On amalgamation to North Wales it went back to six. 2 pump stations rode 5 max, as did the only 3 pump station at Wrexham. Often appliances both Retained and Wholetime ride 4. 2nd appliances (3rd in Wrexhams case) lost the 135 ladder a number of years ago. The point I was making was that in this cost obsessed age, a little used piece of kit, though usefull has got to be in the accountants sights. Especially now some brigades are buying appliances incapable of carrying a 135 ladder.

Added by Gary Simpson on 19 July 2011.
Thanks for the reply's folks,

And for sure, I imagine that MANY aspects of the Fire Service in the UK differs from Canada...however, I believe that in many ways, Canadian Fire Service more closely resembles the UK instead of the USA....apart from the Appliances used here in Canada ( US designed and built for the most part), Canadian FD's generally tend to be "Jack's of all trades"..meaning that a FF here is well rounded and trained in ALL aspects of Firefighting, and rarely ( except for Hazmat, Heavy Rescue, USAR) are "assigned" for any length of time to one apparatus...meaning that a FF could be driving a pumping appliance one shift, riding the seat on an aerial the next and on the nozzle of the pump the next....The US tends to "specialize" their tasks and assignments...they become very good at what they do...BUT rarely do anything else....until they transfer to another company...

David Jones...just for information's Canada at least, roofs are very RARELY VENTED...most common practice here is Positive Pressure Venting..( A UK tactic we borrowed) or horizontal ventilation....In the vast majority of Canada Aerials are not common at all........with the exception of the very urban cities and the built up areas surrounding the cities, aerials are almost a second thought....example: in my COUNTY, there are 8 separate Fire Departments..with a total of some 14 stations...covering a HUGE geographical area, out of this entire area there are TWO 100 ft' Aerials, and one 75' telesquirt...there are numerous large hospitals, arenas, countless schools, factories, businesses and predominately the "downtown" cores of the towns are 1800's construction ( old for and very narrow and congested.......

Aerial ops for us are very similar to what I understand occurs in the UK...predominately second or third call outs...used for elevated water streams and occasionally for rescues.......not much US style "roof work"

T-BONE, thanks for the heads up on that is actually about the closest US built apparatus to a UK style.....smaller in size than the average US designs...but still a bit larger than need be..........

Question for you guys often in actual operations at "shouts" do these 13.5 or even 10.5 meter ladders get thrown? the actually get used or thrown for "possible" use?.....preemtively......

Seems like maybe Spartan Chassis should manufacture their "Furion" chassis in a right hand drive for the UK least it would be a custom made Fire Service Chassis.....might help in a lot of stability issues....

Anyway, Thanks for all the info and comments folks...great to hear from interested folks around the globe......



Added by Jay on 21 July 2011.
here in grampian we have 40+ stations. only 5 are fulltime. we only have 2 aerial appliances and they are both based in aberdeen.

Added by Martin Ross on 22 July 2011.
For background, I am not a firefighter and never have been. I do have 3 uncles, a cousin and numerous childhood friends who have gone into that line of work. My most direct experience was working for a consulting company that advised departments on consolidation and improved efficiency.

Indirectly that's how I stumbled onto this sight. One very small department contacted me about helping them design the specs for a new engine. They have some very challenging size limitations and the Furion chassis seemed to fit their needs. Anything smaller came up short in other areas (primarily pump capacity). BTW, I did this gratis.

Jay, I am largely with you on some of the issues that you have outlined. I know that departments are trying to innovate to a degree. Some in California no longer automatically deploy and engine with an ambulance on medical calls. These make up 80-90% of all calls in many districts out here.

What I have learned as well is that there are some really strong manufacturer preferences amongst firefighters. The SFFD people really like the Crimson/Spartan product and have soured on American La France. Some of the suburban people liked Pierces others did not. One guy hated E-One, but there are none in the area and his experience was based on an appliance 30 years ago. One department has KME's and the others said that they are junk. What I do know is that the 3D/Spartan rigs that SFFD runs get the living hell beaten out of them and they keep going strong and are loved by their crews, especially the engineers.

Added by TBone on 23 July 2011.
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