Fire Engines Photos

This Vehicle was on its way to Hilton Access in Holland who were carrying out 'remedial work' (brigade speak) prior to it going on the run ! - thats the official bit. Now, its an '07 plate and should have been on the run on 1st January 2008 as per the CFO's instruction - the remedial work is to enable it to be initially used as a 'dedicated ariel' and not a combined ariel rescue pump so perhaps CARP really means Costly Ariel Rescue Platform ? the cost of this appliance so far is £520,995 plus 'remedial work' that must be why Humberside heralded it as 'innovative' when it was launched in 2007 !

Added by Rick Loudon on 27 January 2010.

Hi Rick. Do you know what they mean by 'remedial work' are they removing the pump ? Paul.

Added by Paul warnock on 27 January 2010.

I understand they still hope to use it as a CARP in the future - possibly they're hoping for the weight limits on British roads to be raised ! more likely remove the CAFS system as the enviroment agency does not like CAFS being used - that was another waste of money on at least 5 '07 plate Scanias and the CARP ! When I find out more I'll post the news !

Added by Rick Loudon on 27 January 2010.

The crew space looks incredibly long on this appliance.

Added by Buzz on 29 January 2010.

Yes and now it isn't going to be carrying any crew except a driver and possibly oic!

Added by Rick Loudon on 29 January 2010.

Could someone get me the Reg No off the plate in this photo, could Frank help me on this one ?


Added by Peter Batty on 29 January 2010.

Hi Peter, The license plate is : 29-FH-86 and is a Dutch license plate.

Added by Marcel on 29 January 2010.

Thanks Marcel, That is one for the history books, it will be interesting to see just what they do with it, in their own way they may just set a new standard because it looks like they are intent in using it somehow !!
Peter

Added by Peter Batty on 29 January 2010.

picture 21224 has similar idea - an E-One Bronto.

That is a big Crew Compartment here - how many seats are in it ?

Great photo catch, Frank.

Regards, from Canada,
Pat_R-B

Added by Pat Rivers-Bowerman on 30 January 2010.

This appliance is now sat in the end bay of Scunthorpe Fire Station and to date I haven't seen it move

Added by Nath on 21 August 2011.

The Econic chassis was developed by M-B as a specialized garbage truck chassis - what we used to call a "bin lorry" in the Old Country. As such, it was not designed to have a crew cab added(modern garbage trucks are highly efficient and need only one or maximum two operators). The emphasis was that it had a very low profile, so the loading mechanism could be operated from the front.
This meant that the standard cab was very long (look at London's TLs and APs on this chassis) and has, in fact, hardly ever been used in a fire appliance application where a crew cab was included in the specification. Almost all Econic fire trucks are aerials (to take advantage of the low cab height) or rescues, which do not have crew cabs. This truck looks very odd, and it seems to be a rather oddball concept, too!
PS - pity the UK environmental authority doesn't like CAFS. It really is a brilliant tool and increasingly popular in North America and the rest of Europe.

Added by Rob Johnson on 13 August 2012.

Rob I agree I am suprised to hear that the EA apparently do not like CAFS ....anyone who has used it can vouch for the efectiveness of this medium ...the amount of water CAFS saves is significant reducing water damage and knocking down fires efficiently . I can understand the usual restrictions of the use of CAFS near open water sources etc but have not come across any other concerns.
As for the CARP concept this has come down to the correct choice of chassis... under spec the chassis and you have a problem , the US Quint of course has been a huge and popular success due to the use of heavy duty chassis's that are available in the states .It is a pity the Humberside Carp is not in service ...but a number of Brigades have adopted the Carp concept with some success but of course you will not hear of those as they quietly go about their work ...but in these cases the correct chassis was specified being able to take the weight and use that these combined units impose on their under pinnings .

Added by Gary Bolton on 14 August 2012.

Why don't the EA like CAFS? Brigades are using it ie Merseyside and Cumbria. From what I understand the foam is a detergant based one so any use of it must produce less enviromental damage than a fire. CAFS does have limitations, apparently it is ineffective against rolls of carpet on end.

Added by Neal Glover on 14 August 2012.

I also think that CAFS is not necessarily a "silver bullet", but it is very effective on many types of fires. It is also usually installed on a pumper, in a way so that it can be used as an optional tool by the fire crew if they think the situation calls for it.
By reducing the volume of water in the hose (it contains mostly air) it makes moving a charged hose around much easier - good news in a cramped interior space or at a brush or vehicle fire, where you need to keep it moving.
Another benefit is the impact on fire truck design. Nobody completely agrees, but most experts say CAFS uses about half as much water to extinguish a given fire as a plain water application.
This means that a CAFS-equipped van or pickup-based first response or minor alarm unit with a 500 to 1, 000 liter tank can actually handle quite a decent-sized fire. It also means that a city pump-rescue with a 1500 or 1800 liter tank can do the work of a pump-tanker with a 3000-3600 liter tank without opening up a hydrant. Brush trucks can perform more like tanker trucks, which is critical where there are simply no additional water sources, and the insulating properties of the foam help prevent spread through radiant heat.
And if locker space is at a premium, for example to house rescue equipment in a relatively compact vehicle, the tank can be smaller and the weight of water reduced without compromising fire-fighting capability. (Which is presumably why this CARP was specified with a CAFS installation.)
One German city uses 22 ton GVW 6X2 MAN - Ziegler rescue pumpers (with rear steering) with a 6000 liter tank and CAFS, and they have almost eliminated the need to ever open up hydrants. The local fire service is quite proud of this, because, apparently, Germany considers the preservation of city water supplies to be an important conservation issue.
I too have difficulty understanding why the UK does not like CAFS, when it is so common in Germany - which tends to have very stringent environmental regulations.
It seems to me that the smoke and toxic gases given off by modern synthetic materials in a fire must be more of an environmental hazard than CAFS solution running into the drainage system.

Added by Rob Johnson on 16 August 2012.

Rob the City of Duisburg changed from the 3 axxle Man/Ziegler special Rescue Pumpers to the Normal
Lf 20/20 on a 4x4 Iveco chassis with Magirus Alufire3 bodywork.

Added by Ed on 26 August 2012.

According to their website, the six full time (Berufsfeuerwehr) stations still are using the 6X2 MAN Zieglers with CAFS. The newer HLF20/20 units are being dispersed to a few of the numerous volunteer stations (Freiwillige Feuerwehr)in the city, to replace some of their older trucks. These include units which are 30 years or more old, but still in service because they are very rarely called out. Unfortunately, they don't carry rescue equipment, so some of them have to be replaced by trucks which do - the "H" in "HLF".

Added by Rob Johnson on 06 September 2012.

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