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John,this old Midhurst Landrover is still in preservation and I photographed it only last year at a show not far from me.It served Midhurst until the mid-1980's and beleave it or not was the last appliance(originally in yellow)to be re-liveried in red.From around 1986 for afew years it was privately owned by the Bluebell Railway Works Fire Brigade and used for brushfires(railways embankments)caused by steam trains,etc.When the Works Brigade ceased to operate for a number of reasons,the appliance passed onto Ashdown Forest where it was used by the forestry departments Forest Rangers for about 5 years before going out of service in 1999.Its now privately owned and part of a small collection of Landrovers in a private collection.
When new,the appliance was in the Coventry Yellow livery,it will I understand over the next 12 months be having a full renovation,but-the owner did'nt know whether it would be re-liveried back to its original yellow(WSFB),or in the livery of Ashdown Forest.He was still unsure what he was going to do,but I'm hoping because there's only 2 in preservation today of West Sussex's yellow appliances that he'll decide on the yellow livery.
Added by Pete Matten on 17 January 2010.
When new,the appliance was in the Coventry Yellow livery,it will I understand over the next 12 months be having a full renovation,but-the owner did'nt know whether it would be re-liveried back to its original yellow(WSFB),or in the livery of Ashdown Forest.He was still unsure what he was going to do,but I'm hoping because there's only 2 in preservation today of West Sussex's yellow appliances that he'll decide on the yellow livery.
Added by Pete Matten on 17 January 2010.
Hi Pete, happy new year. Excitedly reading your response, it is almost as if you knew that I would ask if it was restored in Coventry Yellow. I hope the owner see's this site and gets inspired by all the excitement that livery creates (and West Sussex machines and forward control type landies and that it must lower insurance premiums being more visible at night and etc etc) that he will go for it!
Added by John D on 18 January 2010.
Added by John D on 18 January 2010.
Hi, I've just seen this appliance today (21st August) at Bentley, and it's still painted red, although you can see the original yellow showing through, so the restoration has not yet started!
Added by Michael G on 21 August 2010.
Added by Michael G on 21 August 2010.
I spoke to Bruce Hoad today(present owner)at the Benley Show and he is still undecided whether to re-do the appliance as it was originally in the Coventry Yellow livery(which I feel with any appliance in preservation it should be as it was), or he may do a respray, etc and keep it as he only knows and remembers the appliance........In Red.Shame really, but we'll have to just wait and see what Bruce decides.
Added by Pete Matten on 21 August 2010.
Added by Pete Matten on 21 August 2010.
Hi Pete - Yes agree - I have one of the origanal Roger Pennington postcards of the Land Rover in Yellow - different but very striking, it certainly would be great to see her looking like that again. When MPX was driving around the arena, she certainly sounds good! Yesterday was the first time I had actually seen her for real. I had not realised the crew seats were rear facing - quite a cramped crew cab! It was my first visit to the Bently rally, not sure what attendance is usually like, but on the Saturday it seemed rather lacking in both visitors and exhibits.
Added by Michael G on 22 August 2010.
Added by Michael G on 22 August 2010.
It was not the most popular of appliance at the time because it was very uncomfortable, and for the reasons you've mensioned.In actual fact, its beleaved there were three on order, but the brigade cancelled the order but for some reason this one was kept.Although by 1971/72 the brigade had converted back to red for future deliveries of appliances, this Landrover I beleave retained its yellow livery until 1982.
Attendence on the Saturday was not good this year, weather really didn't help, plus the airshow at Shoreham plus another couple of things going on didn't help.
Added by Pete Matten on 22 August 2010.
Attendence on the Saturday was not good this year, weather really didn't help, plus the airshow at Shoreham plus another couple of things going on didn't help.
Added by Pete Matten on 22 August 2010.
During the year 1970 West Sussex Fire Brigade placed an order for three.It was thought the original stations of allocation would be Midhurst,
Storrington, Petworth these were to replace the second pumps being Bedford/HCB J5 water tenders.
As Mr Pete Matten has stated only the one pump was delivered in the March of 1971 and allocated to the fire station at New Road Midhurst where it was thought to have been the best place for it to be with the rural location and narrow country roads. Unfortunately it was not popular as the space in the crew cab was very cramped. it served its entire life at this station as a pump and second back up. As all viewers will be aware the colour it was supplied in was Coventry Fire Brigade Yellow this was the last operational appliance within West Sussex to operate in Coventry Yellow on the recommendation of the T.M.O it was repainted to conventional red in the February of 1983. Midhurst Fire Station was one of only two stations within the county to have a total yellow line up they were as follows Dennis D Series Jaguar (D.600) Water Tender Ladder EPX 903H Land Rover 110 Forward Control Carmichael Pump MPX 887J and lastly a Land Rover 107 Hose Reel Tender Ladder 3992 PX, the D Series was removed from the station during the late winter of 1978 and allocated to Driver Training Duties at Ardsheal Road Worthing and in doing so under went a red repaint the Land Rover 3992 PX was to remain for the rest of its days in yellow being withdrawn from service in the November of 1981.
You could replicate the line up at Midhurst for these years by the following Dennis D Wrl MPO 55J
Littlehampton, and also Land Rover 3992 PX which has also been preserved and lastly MPX 887J if it was repainted back to yellow. Does any persons on this forum have knowledge of where? EPX 903H is, it was sold via the Auctions at Frimley in Surrey during late 1987 I suspect it was sold to a ferous Metal Dealer and scrapped, this appliance had the original Jaguar engine in it with a mileage of 100, 82 miles it had a rather unique twin piped exhaust system on it in stainless steel has it survived? over to you .
Added by BOB CARVER on 25 August 2010.
Storrington, Petworth these were to replace the second pumps being Bedford/HCB J5 water tenders.
As Mr Pete Matten has stated only the one pump was delivered in the March of 1971 and allocated to the fire station at New Road Midhurst where it was thought to have been the best place for it to be with the rural location and narrow country roads. Unfortunately it was not popular as the space in the crew cab was very cramped. it served its entire life at this station as a pump and second back up. As all viewers will be aware the colour it was supplied in was Coventry Fire Brigade Yellow this was the last operational appliance within West Sussex to operate in Coventry Yellow on the recommendation of the T.M.O it was repainted to conventional red in the February of 1983. Midhurst Fire Station was one of only two stations within the county to have a total yellow line up they were as follows Dennis D Series Jaguar (D.600) Water Tender Ladder EPX 903H Land Rover 110 Forward Control Carmichael Pump MPX 887J and lastly a Land Rover 107 Hose Reel Tender Ladder 3992 PX, the D Series was removed from the station during the late winter of 1978 and allocated to Driver Training Duties at Ardsheal Road Worthing and in doing so under went a red repaint the Land Rover 3992 PX was to remain for the rest of its days in yellow being withdrawn from service in the November of 1981.
You could replicate the line up at Midhurst for these years by the following Dennis D Wrl MPO 55J
Littlehampton, and also Land Rover 3992 PX which has also been preserved and lastly MPX 887J if it was repainted back to yellow. Does any persons on this forum have knowledge of where? EPX 903H is, it was sold via the Auctions at Frimley in Surrey during late 1987 I suspect it was sold to a ferous Metal Dealer and scrapped, this appliance had the original Jaguar engine in it with a mileage of 100, 82 miles it had a rather unique twin piped exhaust system on it in stainless steel has it survived? over to you .
Added by BOB CARVER on 25 August 2010.
Hi Bob, having just checked DVLA website for EPX it was due for road tax 1/10/1991. Whilst it is not shown as exported & as it still appears on their database it sadly does not mean it hasn't been scrapped & just not recorded. What is interesting is that it may have survived for 5 years, so where was it during that time?
Added by John D on 27 August 2010.
Added by John D on 27 August 2010.
Hi, it was super to hear that L4P MPX 887J stationed at Midhurst is still running, I was the last midhurst fireman to drive it to workshops at Tangmere before it was sold on. I have a lovely hand painting that was presented to me on my leaving Midhurst showing both yellow L/rover 3991 PX and MPX 887J with the then new dennis Rapier M472 XCR Please if possible paint it yellow thats the best ever colour for fire engines and there are pictures showing the then new fire station at New Road Midhurst in 1971 with the then appliences outside. If possible I should like to have a look at MPX 887J and if the present owner is every interested in selling her on please contact me
Added by Steve Conlay on 04 December 2010.
Added by Steve Conlay on 04 December 2010.
Steve, Did you ever drive Dennis D Series D.600
EPX 903H, this appliance was the first ever Dennis D Series WrL to be delivered to The Wharf Fire Station at Midhurst in its early days(for a few weeks carried an Ajax Ladder then training having been completed the 464 going on, the L4L Hose Reel Tender still being in grey (3992 PX) I recall being with my Mother on a mystery drive bus and ending up at Midhurst, the fire siren going off and it was a chimney fire at Graffham the Land Rover was turned out for the incident but unable to reach th stack externally the siren sounded again and on this occasion The brand new immaculate Dennis D turned out. This was about 1969 before the arrival of MPX 887J and when they were in the old station in the Wharf with the glass varnished doors I would never imagined that in later years I would have an opportunity to drive EPX 903H at Workshops on Driver Training Duties 01 Worthing this time in red. Do you recall it being replaced by the newer D Series JCR 323P and the problems you had up there with the brakes defecting which could not be resolved and they then issued with the Brigades only Pump Ladder a Bedford T.K HAP 292D in the dark wrexham red, which was at Midhurst for some considerable time until the arrival of Dennis R Series R.130 OTR 214S transfered from station twelve at Hurst Road Horsham, I remember Land Rover Pump MPX 887J attending W.H Woolworths London Road Bognor Regis the biggest fire in the County since the War on Saturday the 28th August 1978, EPX 903H was also at the incident being on loan back at Midhurst as JCR 323P was again defected due to braking problems once again, EPX was on this occasion in red, I have photos with a full line up of the D Series, which is as follows Midhurst, Horndean, Havant, Fareham, and there is another.
Added by BOB CARVER on 06 December 2010.
EPX 903H, this appliance was the first ever Dennis D Series WrL to be delivered to The Wharf Fire Station at Midhurst in its early days(for a few weeks carried an Ajax Ladder then training having been completed the 464 going on, the L4L Hose Reel Tender still being in grey (3992 PX) I recall being with my Mother on a mystery drive bus and ending up at Midhurst, the fire siren going off and it was a chimney fire at Graffham the Land Rover was turned out for the incident but unable to reach th stack externally the siren sounded again and on this occasion The brand new immaculate Dennis D turned out. This was about 1969 before the arrival of MPX 887J and when they were in the old station in the Wharf with the glass varnished doors I would never imagined that in later years I would have an opportunity to drive EPX 903H at Workshops on Driver Training Duties 01 Worthing this time in red. Do you recall it being replaced by the newer D Series JCR 323P and the problems you had up there with the brakes defecting which could not be resolved and they then issued with the Brigades only Pump Ladder a Bedford T.K HAP 292D in the dark wrexham red, which was at Midhurst for some considerable time until the arrival of Dennis R Series R.130 OTR 214S transfered from station twelve at Hurst Road Horsham, I remember Land Rover Pump MPX 887J attending W.H Woolworths London Road Bognor Regis the biggest fire in the County since the War on Saturday the 28th August 1978, EPX 903H was also at the incident being on loan back at Midhurst as JCR 323P was again defected due to braking problems once again, EPX was on this occasion in red, I have photos with a full line up of the D Series, which is as follows Midhurst, Horndean, Havant, Fareham, and there is another.
Added by BOB CARVER on 06 December 2010.
Bob, I think I did driver it or something like it at training in fact I took my IAM test at Tangmere in a D Jag engined appliance never being able to find all of the gears! The L4T at Midhurst when I joined was 3991 PX, MPX 887J and ORT 214S I think... we did have a replacement for the L4P MPX 887J which was a P reg Dennis and I was at the car autions at Frimley when the L4T 3991 PX was sold and that was the first we at Midhurst knew about it...We will keep in touch and I shall have a look for photos. Steve C
Added by Steve Conlay on 06 December 2010.
Added by Steve Conlay on 06 December 2010.
Steve, nice to hear some more Midhurst stories. Midhurst is lucky in that 4 of its past appliances are all still around, these being, 3991 PX, MPX 887J, OTR 214S(the 1st pump the old man ever rode on) & XOT 146V. Regards Stuart P
Added by Stuart Purves on 06 December 2010.
Added by Stuart Purves on 06 December 2010.
Steve, Sorry about the confusion I keep mentioning 3992 PX I do mean 3991! Midhurst has over the years had the biggest selection and variation of fire appliances in the county, for some reason they used to receive on a regular basis a new appliance I do have a comprehensive list at anytime if you would be interested, however I suspect your interest will be with your time within the Brigade your Driver Training Days at Tangmere would have been Dennis D Series WPM 557J total red livery keep in touch.
Added by BOB CARVER on 07 December 2010.
Added by BOB CARVER on 07 December 2010.
Stu, You must have lots of photos of the yellow appliances?
Added by Steve Conlay on 07 December 2010.
Added by Steve Conlay on 07 December 2010.
Steve, I do have a very large collection of West Sussex and yes, a lot from station 19 Midhurst.
The new appliances that are in service I, now have very little to do with.
Added by BOB CARVER on 08 December 2010.
The new appliances that are in service I, now have very little to do with.
Added by BOB CARVER on 08 December 2010.
John, I've just seen this discussion thread and had to respond. I own MPX 887J, together with 2 ex East Sussex Land Rovers and a Bates Northern Ireland SIII. To give the livery debate a bit of context, I agree entirely about originality, but I worked with this appliance on Ashdown Forest many times when I was Station Commander at Crowborough 20 odd years ago, so the dilemma for me is should I put it back to yellow for the sake of originality, or keep it as I remember it - in the Ashdown Forest livery. To my mind, either is equally valid. Neither of my East Sussex Land Rovers are in the configuration in which they left HCB Angus in 1970, but both are as I remember them, and indeed worked with them. There's still time for the arguments to rumble on as I won't be starting on the renovation until next year at the earliest, so further comment welcome. If it helps, we in the Hoad family can't even agree!
Added by Bruce Hoad on 24 November 2011.
Added by Bruce Hoad on 24 November 2011.
Hi Bruce, it is all about what you intend to do with this vehicle. If you are going to work it then keep it red, however if you are going to show it at rallies then it must be yellow as it was new, and if you meet up with the yellow Land Rover that also was at Midhurst it would make a good photo call and be something special
Added by Wayne Davies on 24 November 2011.
Added by Wayne Davies on 24 November 2011.
Hello Bruce, I am so very sorry I, did not have the opportunity to say goodbye at Odiham 09 fire show please accept my apologies. Originality the issues
I have always been of the belief that an appliance should be presented as it first went into service and left the bodybuilders however for several years West Sussex Fire Brigade operated several Dennis F.8 Pumps and I, will use one of these as example if I may, UPX 293 which is based at the Amberley Chalk Pits Museum underwent extensive restoration during 1976 the appliance having been stripped for disposal. The front of the appliance was changed with some of the embossed alloy panels being replaced with overall red panels, and also the rear pump being removed from an elderly Bedford, never having been in service one could argue that this is not original the rear pump being incorrect plans at the time were to completely repanel the appliance in red.
Now (VPX 782) which is being prepared is being done yellow which is a colour which it was operational in at Crawley Fire Station, the point that I am trying to make is providing that the vehicle in question was operational in some livery or another in how you will present it then it will be original, so both variations on your Land Rover would be in order, for what its worth I would go with the yellow livery why? because its unique when I, repainted it in 1983 the whole cab front internal had to be done as it was yellow inside the Drivers Apartment and for also a bit of information the wheel internals were county cream! (Rover Colour) and its livery at Rovers was county cream/fergusion grey. The cab being painted at Carmichaels before it was bodied.
If I can assist you please contact me, I will sort you out the badges and try to assist I can even give you a coach finish yellow which is a perfect match for the original Coventry Yellow with that rather limey green overall tone although to complicate matters even further this Land Rovers original yellow matched the colour more of the fire helmets! more than Coventry yellow.
Added by BOB CARVER on 24 November 2011.
I have always been of the belief that an appliance should be presented as it first went into service and left the bodybuilders however for several years West Sussex Fire Brigade operated several Dennis F.8 Pumps and I, will use one of these as example if I may, UPX 293 which is based at the Amberley Chalk Pits Museum underwent extensive restoration during 1976 the appliance having been stripped for disposal. The front of the appliance was changed with some of the embossed alloy panels being replaced with overall red panels, and also the rear pump being removed from an elderly Bedford, never having been in service one could argue that this is not original the rear pump being incorrect plans at the time were to completely repanel the appliance in red.
Now (VPX 782) which is being prepared is being done yellow which is a colour which it was operational in at Crawley Fire Station, the point that I am trying to make is providing that the vehicle in question was operational in some livery or another in how you will present it then it will be original, so both variations on your Land Rover would be in order, for what its worth I would go with the yellow livery why? because its unique when I, repainted it in 1983 the whole cab front internal had to be done as it was yellow inside the Drivers Apartment and for also a bit of information the wheel internals were county cream! (Rover Colour) and its livery at Rovers was county cream/fergusion grey. The cab being painted at Carmichaels before it was bodied.
If I can assist you please contact me, I will sort you out the badges and try to assist I can even give you a coach finish yellow which is a perfect match for the original Coventry Yellow with that rather limey green overall tone although to complicate matters even further this Land Rovers original yellow matched the colour more of the fire helmets! more than Coventry yellow.
Added by BOB CARVER on 24 November 2011.
Hi Bruce. Great to hear from you, I understand the dilemma! For me it's not so much a concern about originality it's just a love for that unusual Coventry yellow and as my passion for fire engines was sparked (pun intended) by the Roger Pennington photograph of this appliance on the FSNBF postcards (and also within some books), there is the strong pull of nostalgia. Overall I am just delighted that it is preserved and clearly by someone who is putting a lot of care and thought in to it. Red or yellow, look forward to seeing it one day
Added by John D on 24 November 2011.
Added by John D on 24 November 2011.
Well having spoke to Bruce on a couple of occasions at the Bentley Show, etc in reference to MPX887J and its original yellow livery, its good to know that the restoration may start soon.I think most of us old-timers who served with West Sussex and remember this appliance and others in that colour hope its returned to its original colour.But, if its to be done in red, lets just hope it bears the crest and lettering of the West Sussex Fire Brigade, and not Ashdown Forest.
Added by Pete Matten on 24 November 2011.
Added by Pete Matten on 24 November 2011.
Bob/Steve,
You mentioned WPM 557J. I think this was an ex-East Sussex machine, stationed at Burgess Hill and transferred over to West Sussex in 1974, at least that's what our records on the other side of the Adur show!
Added by Bruce Hoad on 26 November 2011.
You mentioned WPM 557J. I think this was an ex-East Sussex machine, stationed at Burgess Hill and transferred over to West Sussex in 1974, at least that's what our records on the other side of the Adur show!
Added by Bruce Hoad on 26 November 2011.
This vehicle also appears on a 2001 Djibouti stamp issue.
Added by D Kenner on 07 March 2015.
Added by D Kenner on 07 March 2015.
Land Rover
Added by John D on 17 January 2010.