Upload a Picture
About this Site | Links | Random Pic | Advanced Search
Home | Latest Additions | Contributors
| Visitors
Fire Engine Photos
Mercedes 1124F Saxon PL P39 JWG - Poland
In response to Simon Gunning's shot of the ex Wiltshire Mercedes 1124F / Emergency One WrL L851 WMR, here is a picture of an ex South Yorkshire Mercedes 1124F / Saxon Sanbec PL that Fire-Aid International supplied to Poland in July 2007. We have supplied 37 fire appliances to Poland since the beginning of 2007.
This Mercedes (ex P39 JWG and now LCH 68JW) served at Elm Lane, Sheffield and is now with the OSP (volunteer fire brigade) at Zmudz in Chelm County. It lies 19 km (12 miles) southeast of Chelm and is about 16 km (10 miles) from the Ukrainian border and 80 km (50 miles) from Lublin where the appliance was converted (by BASCCO) to left-hand-drive.
As a member of the Polish Volunteer Fire Services Association, Zmudz can be called out of its area to assist other fire brigades including the state-run professional brigades.
P39 JWG was the first of eight former South Yorkshire Mercedes 1124F / Saxon PLs that Fire-Aid International has sent to Poland. The picture was taken on October 28th 2009.
In response to Simon Gunning's shot of the ex Wiltshire Mercedes 1124F / Emergency One WrL L851 WMR, here is a picture of an ex South Yorkshire Mercedes 1124F / Saxon Sanbec PL that Fire-Aid International supplied to Poland in July 2007. We have supplied 37 fire appliances to Poland since the beginning of 2007.
This Mercedes (ex P39 JWG and now LCH 68JW) served at Elm Lane, Sheffield and is now with the OSP (volunteer fire brigade) at Zmudz in Chelm County. It lies 19 km (12 miles) southeast of Chelm and is about 16 km (10 miles) from the Ukrainian border and 80 km (50 miles) from Lublin where the appliance was converted (by BASCCO) to left-hand-drive.
As a member of the Polish Volunteer Fire Services Association, Zmudz can be called out of its area to assist other fire brigades including the state-run professional brigades.
P39 JWG was the first of eight former South Yorkshire Mercedes 1124F / Saxon PLs that Fire-Aid International has sent to Poland. The picture was taken on October 28th 2009.
Whether a volunteer OSP unit may be called out beyond the boundaries of the local commune, depends not on its ZOSP membership (in fact, almost all of them belong to the Association), but on its involvement with the National Fire and Rescue System (KSRG). The idea was to incorporate the technically advanced, well-trained and robust volunteer units of the country into a nationwide system, supplementing the countrywide covarage of the State Fire Service (PSP), which plays the leading role in the system. Currently, more than 3,500 OSPs are involved in the system.
I am sure that the Zmudz volunteers are happy to have a more technically advanced appliance in the bay, but given our local conditions, it may turn out that the 1,8 m3 of water on board is just not enough(the two pumps my OSP uses carry 2,5 and 3 m3). Hydrants are highly unreliable in this country, especially in rural areas.
Added by Konrad Nowak on 03 January 2010.
I am sure that the Zmudz volunteers are happy to have a more technically advanced appliance in the bay, but given our local conditions, it may turn out that the 1,8 m3 of water on board is just not enough(the two pumps my OSP uses carry 2,5 and 3 m3). Hydrants are highly unreliable in this country, especially in rural areas.
Added by Konrad Nowak on 03 January 2010.
John, thank-you for the comment and it was good to see that the Polish OSPs were very pleased with their ex UK appliances.
In response to Konrad's informative comment, for which I am very grateful, BASCCO have been equipping the ex London and West Yorkshire Volvos that we have sent them, with 2,000 litre water tanks replacing the much smaller tanks. Zmudz have retained their Star that I think holds about 2,500 litres of water and there seemed to be plenty of firefighters to man both of their fire appliances.
In response to Morgan, who knows that I am always 'under pressure', as far as I remember the pumps on the South Yorkshire Mercedes were Godiva UMPX 500gpm and gave a high pressure gauge reading well in excess of 30 bar at 2,500 rpm. I will refrain from giving Morgan more information via this message but I will contact him by landline to offer further advice.
Added by Simon Rowley on 03 January 2010.
In response to Konrad's informative comment, for which I am very grateful, BASCCO have been equipping the ex London and West Yorkshire Volvos that we have sent them, with 2,000 litre water tanks replacing the much smaller tanks. Zmudz have retained their Star that I think holds about 2,500 litres of water and there seemed to be plenty of firefighters to man both of their fire appliances.
In response to Morgan, who knows that I am always 'under pressure', as far as I remember the pumps on the South Yorkshire Mercedes were Godiva UMPX 500gpm and gave a high pressure gauge reading well in excess of 30 bar at 2,500 rpm. I will refrain from giving Morgan more information via this message but I will contact him by landline to offer further advice.
Added by Simon Rowley on 03 January 2010.
Have you got a photo of the ex Somerset mercedes 1124 registration J52BYB and where did it end up? I believe you purchased it in the Summer.
Added by Paul Pickford on 03 January 2010.
Added by Paul Pickford on 03 January 2010.
Yes Paul, we did get J52 BYB and also J51 BYB, both from Mike Hebard of Bells and Two Tones who had bought them from Devon and Somerset. We sent them to Poland in August. When I went to BASCCO in Lublin in October, J52 was in their workshops being converted to left-hand-drive so I was unable to get a decent shot of it; J51 was parked outside awaiting its turn for conversion. When I go back to Poland this year I'll get some pix of these two with their new volunteer fire brigades and I'll send you some copies.
Added by Simon Rowley on 03 January 2010.
Added by Simon Rowley on 03 January 2010.
I thought it would be nice to give the F.E.P. community some more information on the subject from the Polish perspective, so I scribbled down a short 'article'. Hope you'll find it an interesting and entertaining read.
The import of ex-UK pumps is a fairly recent development on the Polish market for used fire appliances. Previously (a few years ago), the bulk of used imports was of German origin. The rest (the following order of priority is based solely on my educated guess) came from the Netherlands, France, Austria and Sweden. The role of other possible countries of origin is close to none.
Until recently, the most popular make was Magirus-Deutz with Magirus/Motorkracht bodies, mostly from the late 70. and early 80. These classic machines had a lot of advantages: firstly, the vast majority of basic equipment used in Poland and Germany is interchangeable, so there was no need to replace the delivery couplings, rearrange the lockers, roof ladder fastenings etc. Secondly, they were built tough and simple as well as maintained very well during their service with German volunteer units. Thirdly, and perhaps most importantly, they came at at price you couldn't beat, it was often comparable with the cost of a Polish appliance of the same age. Not to mention the fact that was 10-15 times less than a brand-new one! Their main disadvantage was the water tank – it was often way too small. That's why the 'TLF 16/25' version (with 2,500 l) was much sought-after, as it was a 'natural' replacement for the Polish 'GBA 2,5/16'. In other cases, conversions similar to those done by BASCCO (Lublin is my place of birth and ex-home town, btw) were carried out by local companies or firefighters themselves. The age of the vehicles was not that big a deal, the main point was to buy a reliable, serviceable replacement, even with an equally long history, for the socialist era STARs, JELCZes and ZUKs which are often literally falling apart (as our 33-year old STAR does, fortunately now a reserve applianace). Here's a fairly typical example of this M-D type:
mail.scazi.com.pl/~kus/details.php?image_id=7472&mode=search
The second most popular make was Mercedes-Benz - 1019/1224/etc. series - from the 1980s. The bodies came from quite a few manufacturers: Ziegler, Metz, Rosenbauer. Here's an example: www.firerescue.pl/displayimage.php?album=223&pos=13 Note the brand-new LED grill lights! This one is from the Lublin area, and was presumably supplied by BASCCO.
The more rare imports included some tankers/heavy industrial appliances [yep, for use by regular volunteers!] (mostly Magirus-Deutz and Iveco Magirus) and rescues (MAN, Mercedes), and light appliances (Mercedes, Opel Blitz, Magirus, Ford Transit), ages ranging from 15 to 30 years.
It is notable that many Magirus and MB appliances arrived as donations from partner towns/communes in Germany (so have quite a few French and Swedish machines).
Imports from the Netherlands included some DAF/Kronenburg pumps (often 30 years old!), but currently more late 80./early 90. appear, notably some 4x2 MBs 1124/Rosenbauer.
As far as France is concerned: in the 25-30-years 'class', there were some Berliet/Camiva pumps. In the 15-20 years class, Iveco/Camiva is present. In this case, some conversion work was necessary: first and foremost, the delivery couplings had to be replaced. Curiously, I've heard of a few units who did not replace the suction intake coupling and retained the French suction hoses (same thing with British ones, btw)! I guess it's because the ones they had had before were a mess and it was economically sound to keep the originals than to buy a new set of hard STORZ 110s.
Austria is represented by Steyr/Rosenbauer and Mercedes/Rosenbauer appliances. These tend to be a bit younger, 15-20.
As you may have guessed, Swedish imports included mostly Scanias, both pumps and tankers, mostly 25-30 years old. Last summer, I came across a used Scania in this late 20s which was enjoying a second, peaceful life. This great red machine was fitted with orange beacons and was being used by a private contractor from Gorzow Wielkopolski. A (very friendly indeed!) crew of gardeners, responsible for the maintenance of urban greenery, used it for transporting their tools and watering lawns. According to them, it was 'the best piece of equipment' they've ever had. The company, I was informed, also had an ex-German fire service MAN at their disposal.
Many years ago, some International Harvesters from 1960s were either bought or donated from Sweden, but these have already been withdrawn (only to be replaced with the old Magirus trucks!).
Now let's come back to the UK appliances. Throughout the 1990s, only a few were imported. In 1993, the State Fire Service unit of Sosnowiec purchased a brand-new Dennis SS, and it remained the only brand-new British machine ever (?) to be bought by a Polish fire authority.* And it's still on the run and doing well, as far as I know! A few used RS/SS were imported and converted since, but the ex-UK appliances only became 'hot' merchandise about 1-2 years ago. Some of their standard features ('wrong'-hand-drive, relatively small water tank, useless couplings) are a pain, but a simple conversion can cure most of these problems. A 4x4 chassis would be more suitable for Polish roads, but it is not a necessity. And they have extremely important advantages: they're young (10-15), well maintained, user-friendly and quite modern. And the cost is still 3-4 times lower than the price of a brand-new machine, which would not necessarily be more reliable, as the curious breakdowns of our 2008 Atego show.
Along with the appliances, the 'one three five' was introduced to Poland. The standard ground ladders used here are the 'D-10W' and 'DW-14'. The use of wooden and aluminium scaling ladders (does that still ring a bell in the UK? You used to have them a few decades ago, as far as I know) is also widespread. Yet it would be hard to install a new mounting for any of these, so the British 13,5 ladder is now part of the standard equipment of some volunteer units.
There's a variety offered: ex-LFB Volvos/Saxon, ex-Greater Manchester Volvos/Saxon, various MBs, some specials, but I'm sure Simon know more about that than I do, or ever will ;)
Here an ex-LFB Volvo/Saxon: www.firerescue.pl/displayimage.php?album=223&pos=12
Also from the Lublin area.
*The only (and still only remotely relevant) exception I can think of is a Scania-Vabis/Merryweather TTL, purchased by the Port Fire Service in Gdansk in the 1950s.
Added by Konrad Nowak on 04 January 2010.
The import of ex-UK pumps is a fairly recent development on the Polish market for used fire appliances. Previously (a few years ago), the bulk of used imports was of German origin. The rest (the following order of priority is based solely on my educated guess) came from the Netherlands, France, Austria and Sweden. The role of other possible countries of origin is close to none.
Until recently, the most popular make was Magirus-Deutz with Magirus/Motorkracht bodies, mostly from the late 70. and early 80. These classic machines had a lot of advantages: firstly, the vast majority of basic equipment used in Poland and Germany is interchangeable, so there was no need to replace the delivery couplings, rearrange the lockers, roof ladder fastenings etc. Secondly, they were built tough and simple as well as maintained very well during their service with German volunteer units. Thirdly, and perhaps most importantly, they came at at price you couldn't beat, it was often comparable with the cost of a Polish appliance of the same age. Not to mention the fact that was 10-15 times less than a brand-new one! Their main disadvantage was the water tank – it was often way too small. That's why the 'TLF 16/25' version (with 2,500 l) was much sought-after, as it was a 'natural' replacement for the Polish 'GBA 2,5/16'. In other cases, conversions similar to those done by BASCCO (Lublin is my place of birth and ex-home town, btw) were carried out by local companies or firefighters themselves. The age of the vehicles was not that big a deal, the main point was to buy a reliable, serviceable replacement, even with an equally long history, for the socialist era STARs, JELCZes and ZUKs which are often literally falling apart (as our 33-year old STAR does, fortunately now a reserve applianace). Here's a fairly typical example of this M-D type:
mail.scazi.com.pl/~kus/details.php?image_id=7472&mode=search
The second most popular make was Mercedes-Benz - 1019/1224/etc. series - from the 1980s. The bodies came from quite a few manufacturers: Ziegler, Metz, Rosenbauer. Here's an example: www.firerescue.pl/displayimage.php?album=223&pos=13 Note the brand-new LED grill lights! This one is from the Lublin area, and was presumably supplied by BASCCO.
The more rare imports included some tankers/heavy industrial appliances [yep, for use by regular volunteers!] (mostly Magirus-Deutz and Iveco Magirus) and rescues (MAN, Mercedes), and light appliances (Mercedes, Opel Blitz, Magirus, Ford Transit), ages ranging from 15 to 30 years.
It is notable that many Magirus and MB appliances arrived as donations from partner towns/communes in Germany (so have quite a few French and Swedish machines).
Imports from the Netherlands included some DAF/Kronenburg pumps (often 30 years old!), but currently more late 80./early 90. appear, notably some 4x2 MBs 1124/Rosenbauer.
As far as France is concerned: in the 25-30-years 'class', there were some Berliet/Camiva pumps. In the 15-20 years class, Iveco/Camiva is present. In this case, some conversion work was necessary: first and foremost, the delivery couplings had to be replaced. Curiously, I've heard of a few units who did not replace the suction intake coupling and retained the French suction hoses (same thing with British ones, btw)! I guess it's because the ones they had had before were a mess and it was economically sound to keep the originals than to buy a new set of hard STORZ 110s.
Austria is represented by Steyr/Rosenbauer and Mercedes/Rosenbauer appliances. These tend to be a bit younger, 15-20.
As you may have guessed, Swedish imports included mostly Scanias, both pumps and tankers, mostly 25-30 years old. Last summer, I came across a used Scania in this late 20s which was enjoying a second, peaceful life. This great red machine was fitted with orange beacons and was being used by a private contractor from Gorzow Wielkopolski. A (very friendly indeed!) crew of gardeners, responsible for the maintenance of urban greenery, used it for transporting their tools and watering lawns. According to them, it was 'the best piece of equipment' they've ever had. The company, I was informed, also had an ex-German fire service MAN at their disposal.
Many years ago, some International Harvesters from 1960s were either bought or donated from Sweden, but these have already been withdrawn (only to be replaced with the old Magirus trucks!).
Now let's come back to the UK appliances. Throughout the 1990s, only a few were imported. In 1993, the State Fire Service unit of Sosnowiec purchased a brand-new Dennis SS, and it remained the only brand-new British machine ever (?) to be bought by a Polish fire authority.* And it's still on the run and doing well, as far as I know! A few used RS/SS were imported and converted since, but the ex-UK appliances only became 'hot' merchandise about 1-2 years ago. Some of their standard features ('wrong'-hand-drive, relatively small water tank, useless couplings) are a pain, but a simple conversion can cure most of these problems. A 4x4 chassis would be more suitable for Polish roads, but it is not a necessity. And they have extremely important advantages: they're young (10-15), well maintained, user-friendly and quite modern. And the cost is still 3-4 times lower than the price of a brand-new machine, which would not necessarily be more reliable, as the curious breakdowns of our 2008 Atego show.
Along with the appliances, the 'one three five' was introduced to Poland. The standard ground ladders used here are the 'D-10W' and 'DW-14'. The use of wooden and aluminium scaling ladders (does that still ring a bell in the UK? You used to have them a few decades ago, as far as I know) is also widespread. Yet it would be hard to install a new mounting for any of these, so the British 13,5 ladder is now part of the standard equipment of some volunteer units.
There's a variety offered: ex-LFB Volvos/Saxon, ex-Greater Manchester Volvos/Saxon, various MBs, some specials, but I'm sure Simon know more about that than I do, or ever will ;)
Here an ex-LFB Volvo/Saxon: www.firerescue.pl/displayimage.php?album=223&pos=12
Also from the Lublin area.
*The only (and still only remotely relevant) exception I can think of is a Scania-Vabis/Merryweather TTL, purchased by the Port Fire Service in Gdansk in the 1950s.
Added by Konrad Nowak on 04 January 2010.
Konrad, very many thanks for this most informative information that is very much appreciated by myself and, I am sure, others who contribute to the F.E.P. site.
I must say that I found Lublin a very friendly place (even more so that Warsaw) and, as Fire-Aid International's involvement with BASCCO continues and expands, no doubt I will be making many more visits in the future.
I have looked at the picture of the ex London Volvo; we have sent three of them to BASCCO but I don't think that this is one of them. We supplied two from DDA at Pinewood (M979 LYP, since sold to OSP Siedliska, and M981 LYP, still with BASCCO in October 2009) and one from Wessex at Sopley (N46 OHX, recently sold to an OSP but no details yet).
I believe that someone else in Lublin started selling fire appliances but soon stopped and this might have been one of a handful of fire appliances that he supplied to OSPs. I will see if I can trace its origins and pass on the details.
Added by Simon Rowley on 05 January 2010.
I must say that I found Lublin a very friendly place (even more so that Warsaw) and, as Fire-Aid International's involvement with BASCCO continues and expands, no doubt I will be making many more visits in the future.
I have looked at the picture of the ex London Volvo; we have sent three of them to BASCCO but I don't think that this is one of them. We supplied two from DDA at Pinewood (M979 LYP, since sold to OSP Siedliska, and M981 LYP, still with BASCCO in October 2009) and one from Wessex at Sopley (N46 OHX, recently sold to an OSP but no details yet).
I believe that someone else in Lublin started selling fire appliances but soon stopped and this might have been one of a handful of fire appliances that he supplied to OSPs. I will see if I can trace its origins and pass on the details.
Added by Simon Rowley on 05 January 2010.
Hello Konrad, I wonder if you have any knowledge of the Dodge K850 appliances that were sent to your country from Norfolk Fire Service, England. This would have been around 15-20 years ago. It would be nice to hear if they gave good service or if as someone told me, they were intended to be a 'stepping stone' to more modern types of vehicles.
Added by Chris Wood on 05 January 2010.
Added by Chris Wood on 05 January 2010.
Snap!! Another former South Yorkshire Merc is here in Malta. It is used by Enemalta Corporation, the local power company. It entered service here in 2008, replacing a Bedford TK which is now in our collection. The TK can be seen elsewhere on this site. I will try and post a pic of the Merc sometime soon.
Added by Mario Zammit, MHVT on 05 January 2010.
Added by Mario Zammit, MHVT on 05 January 2010.
Thanks for this info Mario - I expect that this was the one that came from HPMP in Ireland; they had the batch of 'R' registered South Yorkshire Mercedes / Saxon PLs of which three stayed in Ireland, we had two for Poland and one went to Malta. I'll look up some details but I'd like to see a picture of it with its new brigade.
Chris - I've got a couple of pix off a website of ex Norfolk Dodge K850s in Poland (I think that myself and Ian Moore were able to identify one of them)- remind me of your email address and I'll send them down to you.
Added by Simon Rowley on 06 January 2010.
Chris - I've got a couple of pix off a website of ex Norfolk Dodge K850s in Poland (I think that myself and Ian Moore were able to identify one of them)- remind me of your email address and I'll send them down to you.
Added by Simon Rowley on 06 January 2010.
Following on from the above comments about the Dodge K's I know its a long shot but does anybody have any photos or any information about the ex Somerset Dodge K's that were sent to Romania around 1993. Most of the Somerset Dodge K's were sent to Romania and were driven over by Somerset personnel. I think they also donated some Bedford TK's as well.
Added by PAUL PICKFORD on 06 January 2010.
Added by PAUL PICKFORD on 06 January 2010.
Thank you Simon, I'll be in touch.
Added by Chris Wood on 06 January 2010.
Added by Chris Wood on 06 January 2010.
Hi Chris, I have to say this piece of information was quite a surprise. I can't recall anything about ex-Norfolk Dodge pumps. I'm guessing it's due to the fact that I am simply too young to remember that particular episode of Polish fire service history. Back in the early 1990s, I was just old enough to watch Fireman Sam.
It is very likely that they simply played the role of a 'stepping stone', as you said (many, if not most, of the used imports are bought with that purpose in mind). I'll do some more research and inform you as soon as I find out where those appliances served and what their ultimate fate was.
Added by Konrad Nowak on 07 January 2010.
It is very likely that they simply played the role of a 'stepping stone', as you said (many, if not most, of the used imports are bought with that purpose in mind). I'll do some more research and inform you as soon as I find out where those appliances served and what their ultimate fate was.
Added by Konrad Nowak on 07 January 2010.
Many thanks Konrad.
Myself and a fellow Norfolk enthusiast are currently aware of four machines that went to Poland. UK registrations were UCL 158/9R, YCL 10S and YNG 348S. The latter two were sent in 1995 as I saw them on local television as they were about to leave.
I hope you are successful in finding out something about their life in Poland.
Added by Chris Wood on 08 January 2010.
Myself and a fellow Norfolk enthusiast are currently aware of four machines that went to Poland. UK registrations were UCL 158/9R, YCL 10S and YNG 348S. The latter two were sent in 1995 as I saw them on local television as they were about to leave.
I hope you are successful in finding out something about their life in Poland.
Added by Chris Wood on 08 January 2010.
Konrad,
There should be 4 ex norfolk fire service mercedes 1222 appliances on there way to poland very soon or might even be there be now!
All the best
Graham
Added by Graham on 10 January 2010.
There should be 4 ex norfolk fire service mercedes 1222 appliances on there way to poland very soon or might even be there be now!
All the best
Graham
Added by Graham on 10 January 2010.
Some UK machines have found their way to Argentina too, which seems to have acquired appliances from virtually everywhere.
They solved the hose coupling problem very quickly and cheaply: they simply equipped each pump with a few additional two meter hoses, each with a British coupling on one end and a Stortz on the other!
Added by Rob Johnson on 25 April 2018.
They solved the hose coupling problem very quickly and cheaply: they simply equipped each pump with a few additional two meter hoses, each with a British coupling on one end and a Stortz on the other!
Added by Rob Johnson on 25 April 2018.
Mercedes-Benz
Added by John Stott on 02 January 2010.