Fire Engines Photos

It's Rail Corp's Fire engine. Rail Corporation is the government agency responsible for the land that train tracks occupy, as the NSW Fire Brigades is not the primary responder for these areas, Rail Corp has its own fire department. They have old NSWFB trucks as well and also operate on the NSWFB radio network. Nice truck, except the front chaser lights are meant to be opposite to the main roof lights, amazing how many Australian emergency vehicles get this wrong.

Added by Martyn Schafer on 28 November 2008.

This vehicle has since been sold off(been gone over a month or so). Replacement is a new mercedes atego with rescue body. built by SEM in victoria. It carries first aid tank and pump with fire fighting gear as well as some rescue and specialist rail emergency equipment. Also at their station they have an international Acco salvage(NSWFB) and a isuzu hi rail fire appliance that goes on the tracks for the airport line.

Added by Bart on 09 December 2008.

It would appear Bart has a detailed knowledge of this unit, indicating he is either a member or closely associated with it. During 2006 the current manager of this organisation stated the following about this unit in a letter to the NSW Premier, "They do not perform a similar role as a NSW Fire Brigades firefighter or Rural Fire Service firefighter but they do assist them with access, technical knowledge and safety information for fires on railway property. During 2008 Railcorp would not release this letter, claiming an exemption under the Freedom Of Information Act. According to Bart the above vehicle was replaced with a mercedes atego, which has a first aid tank, pump and firefighting gear. RailCorp claims this organisation does not perform a firefighting role. Why then does RailCorp require firefighting vehicles? In accordance with NSW Traffic Law, the only vehicles able to display red and blue flashing lights are police, ambulance and fire brigade. Any fire engine proceeding to a fire or other emergency must be in the charge of a firefighter. RailCorp stated the members of this unit are not firefighters. Therefore RailCorp by their own admission have committed offences against NSW Traffic Law.

Added by Arride on 02 March 2009.

Followed this story with great interest gents, I have always admired Australian rural brigades for their devotion and ingenious appliance design, and at the recent bush fires, their bravery and devotion. However, why do the public brigades in cities and utilities confuse people so much? There seems to be a great deal of duplication and even demarcation in roles, any suggestions as to why would be most enlightening.

Added by John Stott on 03 March 2009.

Arride, Sorry to dissappoint just saw the photos on SEM website and also on ozfire. there are a few on there by different people.

Added by Bart on 04 March 2009.

No need to apologise Bart. It would the drivers of these vehicles who would be disappointed when questioned over traffic law by a solicitor following a serious/fatal collision. In legal definitions there are no shades of grey, either these vehicles are being driven by firefighters, or they are not. RailCorp claim they are not! The moto of this unit may be Semper Paratus, however, maxim ignorantia juris haud excusat.

Added by Arride on 04 March 2009.

Arride, you will probably find they have exemption from the Hon Minister, both to display and sound warning devices, and proceed under certain conditions through traffic. Red Cross Blood Unit, Emergency Power & Gas Companies, Emergency Doctor Services, Emergency Environmental Services have simular exemptions.

Added by Pavel - Western Australia on 05 March 2009.

Pavel, the Hon Ministers have sided with RailCorp on this one and all because RailCorp will not apply for recognition under the National Medal for this unit. In NSW, vehicles are governed by the Roads & Traffic Authority standards which state; Blue, or red & blue flashing lights may only be fitted to police vehicles, ambulances, operational fire brigade and accedited bush fire brigade vehicles. RailCorp by their own admission are in breach of this RTA Vehicle Standard. In accordance with Section 31 of the NSW Fire Brigades Act 1989, it is unlawful for any persons to constitute or maintain a fire brigade for the purpose of extinguishing fire within any "fire district" except, under the authority of this Act. RailCorp claim this unit is not empowered under legislation. Therefore RailCorp is also in breach of the NSW Fire Brigades Act, for allowing their ERU vehicles to travel within fire districts displaying red & blue flashing lights. They can't have their cake and it eat it too. Ignorance of the law does not excuse an act which contravenes it.

Added by Arride on 06 March 2009.

Arride, best of luck on this one. Now, for the benefit of our overseas visitors when they visit the beautiful City of Sydney, hows about telling them the location of the magnificient old building behind the, arrr, white truck, and what it's about so they don't miss it when the come streaming down here to check out the RailCorp truck shed, , :)

Added by Pavel - Western Australia on 06 March 2009.

To Arride, sorry to confuse the debate, the official vehicle of the NSW Governor also has a very impressive "Christmas tree" of red and blue lights, dash flasher included.Certain consular vehicles also have covert red and blue lights too.

Added by Hato on 20 November 2009.

Hato, you will find that consular and government vehicles are included under state or federal police vehicles. The issue with the RailCorp vehicles is based on comments from their own CEO, on advice from the manager of this unit. Either these vehicles are fire fighting vehicles, driven by firefighters, or they are not. RailCorp can not have it both ways.

Added by Arride on 23 November 2009.

In NSW the VRA (Vol Rescue Assoc) and SES (State Emergency Service) are also rescue providers why do they have reds, blues and sirens? The statement above doesnt seem to fit.

There are also numerous "private" brigades opperating in various "special" locations around the state inc contractors on military bases and regional airports and use public roads to respond.
In the hunter valley Aust Rail Track Corp had contractors following the maintance crews and NSW RFS were directed not to enter the land adjacent to the train lines as we were not properly accredited to work in this space.

There must be parallel legislation to allow the above mentioned, non NSWFB, NSWAS, NSWRFS, NSWPS vehicles the same rights. surely drivers would also have the same instruction and qualifications under the Aust Qual Framework for driving these vehicles.

Added by Fireyowie on 03 March 2010.

To Fireyowie, with regard to "private" organisations in various "special" locations around the state, you will find these organisations are unable to display red & blue flashing lights outside the private location. I have heard of Council Rangers using the flashing lights on their vehicles to pull over drivers for various reasons. In accordance with legislation, only "police", can "stop" a vehicle using flashing lights. Council Rangers can however use the magenta coloured lights while "stopped" performing vehicle weight checks. In accordance with NSW legislation, only;
police
ambulance
fire fighting vehicles
State Emergency Services
a vehicle used by a Traffic Commander or Traffic Emergency Patroller, or
A vehicle used by "an accredited" rescue unit (within the meaning of the State Emergency and Rescue Management Act 1989 ).
can display red & blue flashing lights.
By your statement "are also rescue providers", are you suggesting the RailCorp Emergency Response Unit is an accredited rescue unit?

Added by Arride on 07 March 2010.

Arride, i can only reeasonibly assume that because have their own (brand new) station, vehicles with beacons and sirens (inc NSWFB livery) that (according to Bart) "It carries first aid tank and pump with fire fighting gear as well as some rescue and specialist rail emergency equipment" that Railcorp is an acreddited rescue unit.
For transperancy's sake, I am an RFS firefighter and have no affiliation with any rescue provider, from your comments I conclude you have some issue with Railcorp and their role as a rescue provider...can you enlighten us?

Added by Fireyowie on 19 March 2010.

Fireyowie, It would appear that in the same year the manager of the RailCorp ERU was advising government that members of this unit "do not perform similar roles to NSW Fire Brigades or Rural Fire Service firefighters", RailCorp was applying to the NSW Police to obtain approval to display red & blue lights on its vehicles. It is also interesting that approval was granted based on RERU members, when driving a fire fighting appliance, will be classified as emergency workers and that a fire fighting appliance is defined as 'an appliance used to fight fire.' For the purpose of obtaining lights and sirens, the unit and its members fight fires, yet for the purpose of awarding the National Medal, they do not. Either they fight fires, or they do not. Which is it? One has to wonder why RailCorp has gone to such great lengths to prevent members of the RERU being awarded the National Medal?

Added by Arride on 21 March 2010.

This is a Volunteer Rescue Association vehicle. Not RailCorp...........

Added by FirefighterDown on 11 February 2011.

"RailCorp Emergency Response Unit is one of the functional areas reporting to the Manager
Rail Management Centre. The role of the RailCorp Emergency Response Unit is to establish
and maintain policy and procedures for fire protection and control impacting on the safety of
passengers, staff and emergency service crews, and on all rolling stock, property and
buildings. The Emergency Response Unit responds to fire, spillages (HAZMAT), evacuations,
fatalities, explosive devices, flooding and related power failure, attends all incidents where an
Emergency Response is required to protect life and property due to Accidental or Natural
Disaster in the Rail Corridor and to restore normality through liaison and guidance. "

"Reporting to the Emergency Response Unit Manager is a personal assistant and 12 Fire
Officers " this has been placed in a job description in April 2011 sounds to me like they are being classed as fire officers

Added by Phil on 28 April 2011.

Phil, the manager of the Emergency Response Unit wrote to NSW Government in early 2006 claiming his staff did not perform a similar function as a NSW Fire Brigades Fire Fighter, and should therefore not be included under the National Medal. However in October 2005 RailCorp wrote to the same NSW Transport Minister requesting his support in obtaining NSW Police 'reconsideration' for their ERU manager's vehicle, a new utility, to be endorsed as a "fire fighting appliance", because it now carried "fire fighting" equipment.

Added by Arride on 18 December 2011.

I thought the railways had their own fire service because under the Fire Brigades Acts, both the Fire Brigade and volunteer bush fire brigades can't enter railway access corridors without either escort or permission from the railways. It seemed logical for the railways to have their own fire service for the city, which I think they only attend incidences at the train stations in the city area, I have never seen them working at stations outside the CBD.

Added by Martyn Schafer on 29 February 2012.

Martyn,

Under emergency situations no they do not have to be escorted as far as I'm aware. I could be wrong for NSW but in Qld if there is an emergency they can enter any property to perform there duties.

Added by Phil on 29 February 2012.

Martyn,
Staff from this unit recently attended a non fire related incident at Newtown Rail Station and were recorded on news footage. Newtown is outside the CBD.

Approval for the RailCorp ERU vehicles to display red & blue flashing lights was based on the advice RailCorp provided government and other government departments. Advice which caused these departments to define the ERU vehicles as 'fire fighting appliances'.

Within a matter of 2-3 months RailCorp then claimed the unit does not perform a fire fighting role, and were therefore not entitled to be included as an Australian Fire Service in accordance with the National Medal Regulations.

If you are required to wear prescription glasses while driving a motor vehicle and fail to do so, can you be held accountable at law?

Added by Arride on 08 March 2012.

I am sure that you will find that under the Road Rule that defines emergency vehicles as vehicles driven by Emergency Workers it defines Emergency Workers as "(c) a person (or a person belong to a class of persons) approved by the Authority." Which means that they can name whoever they want to. In regards to the National Medal; I do not think that industry based firefighters qualify for the National Medal, many industries have their own fire response crews.
He is an interesting one: Liverpool Hospital's Fire Warden has a car that is maked up with lights and sirens. I'd give it to the RailCorp blokes before a Fire Warden anyday!

Added by Theo on 06 April 2012.

Theo, it is interesting that your comment mirrors that of RailCorp. You are correct that many industries have their own fire crews, and when this unit was formed back in 1895 there was the Metropolitan Fire Brigade and the then Sydney Railway Volunteer Fire Brigade. Just after the turn of the 19th century it was renamed the Railway Fire Brigade. The name has changed many times, however the responsibilities have not. From my understanding, no other industry, with exception of the NSWFB, used the term 'brigade fireman' to define their members. Regardless of whether the employees from this unit were classed as 'Emergency Workers' or not, approval was granted based on the information RailCorp supplied the reglatory authorities. Their approval was granted based on the RailCorp vehicles from this unit being defined as 'appliances used to fight fire'. Who drives an appliance used to fight fires?


Added by Arride on 20 April 2012.

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