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Pelham E-91
Fire Engine Photos
No: 6257   Contributor: TheFireman   Year: 1978   Manufacturer: Ford   Country: United States of America
Pelham E-91

E-91 was a Grumman/Ford 1000gpm/500gal pumper. This is what the previous photo of the Pierce Dash replaced. Taken in front of the Pelham, Alabama City Hall.
Picture added on 19 February 2008
add commentComments:
My gosh, I remember these Fords as common, every-day Pumpers, a modestly-priced alternative to the Custom-Builders such as American LaFrance.

No "Granny Seats" for Pavel: only a 2-man Cab, for the Officer and Driver; the other crew-members either rode the Rear-Step (ooh, 'Elf & Safety !), or in other Apparatus.....

Great ruck - thanks for putting it on for us.

Regards, from Canada,
Pat_R-B

Added by Pat Rivers-Bowerman on 26 July 2009.
Pat,
They did make some jump seat versions that carried 4-5 F/Fs. (Granny seats?) However I did ride tailboard on this truck and others like it in my career.
They were all too common but I still like the classic ALF as to what a fire truck should "look like". These were low bid apparatus.

Added by Fireman4501 on 27 July 2009.
Thankyou Fireman, a very commom site on USAFE bases, usually La France if I remember, carried a large quantity of flaked hose on the back. This would draw dispariging remarks from RAF firemen about lazy Americans and not running out hose in the British tradition, I wasnt one of these chaps of course......

Added by John Stott on 27 July 2009.
John, that must have been neat - having both styles, in the same Fire Protection Area. I am assuming, that the Hose Couplings were standardized on the RAF and USAF trucks, so that they would work together....

To indulge my curiosity - what did you observe, about the 2 different systems - good and bad ?

On my end; in our Rural Fire Department - we have both on each truck - rolled and flaked....

Regards, from Canada,
Pat_R-B

Added by Pat Rivers-Bowerman on 28 July 2009.
Pat, we shared a fire dept for two years whilst our runway was relayed in the seventies. The US had adaptors for couplings, but we answered our own emergency calls with a loose mutual aid agreement. I like to think we learned a lot from each other. My only criticism was the rather slipshod BA procedures used by the Americans. We were and still are very strict on BA control, the Yanks were quite happy to throw a Scott pack on with no apparent control and that really confused a lot of us. Another thing was the sheer size of American crews compared to RAF, we had a crew of nine men riding three machines. The USAF piled fifteen into Seven trucks!
A different approach was the apparent differences in the crews make up, one shift of rednecks, another of North Americans and one of black and Hispanic men, it was 1977 so things will be very different nowadays.

Added by John Stott on 28 July 2009.
John,
Now you have my curiosity spiked about the BAs. What kind of "control" should we have? Our control comes in the form of an effective IC, so what are we doing wrong?
Interesting about my brethern rednecks having their own shift. Definitly not that way now!

Added by Thefireman on 29 July 2009.
Hi "fireman", we have two stages, Stage 1 and 2. 2 is for more than one wearer, always operate in pairs even on Stage 1, theres a dedicated control man, each wearer hands a tally to him, time in is entered along with his cylinder pressure and time he should be out. A display board holds all the tallies so anybody knows the location of teams and if they are overdue. I hear there are some fandangled experiments with electronics going on, but the old system has stood the test of time. We had a underground fire on a radar base many years ago and lost three men at RAF Neatishead, a lot of criticism was levelled at certain people and procedures were tightened up.
As for rednecks, they kept cooking squirrels and stinking the dept out, a very interesting two years in my life!

Added by John Stott on 29 July 2009.
"Due Diligence" has caught up, with us, in Rural Area of Canada. Very basic.

It is "Two in; Two out" - 2-man SCBA team, and enters only when another 2-man team has arrived, suited up and ready to go, as back-up, standing by outside. Also the Tally Tag; and Record-Sheet by a responsible Officer.

Geez, John; we need more stories of your "Foreign Experience"; and, without having to leave your native land, yet....

Did you develop a taste for "Hog Chitlins, Succotash, and Grits"(both red-neck and Soul Foods) ...... debate the Hale vs Darley pump .....perhaps, sneak a classic ALF Pumper, home ?

We gotta hear this.

Regards, from Canada,
Pat_R-B

Added by Pat Rivers-Bowerman on 29 July 2009.
Pat,(and all others)
Even tho I do consider myself a redneck, I assure you that I have NOT had any Chitlins. The idea of eating pig intestines jest ain'y my cup-o-tea.Of course it isn't too far from Haggas(sp?) as I understand it. Squirrel should be served with gravy as it dries out a lot when cooked. Succotash and grits? I am THERE Brother, love both! It funny when Brothers from New York or Jersey come to a Southern Firehall, we ask if they want grits and they usually reply, "Yea, I'll try one." No you won't, you'll try a couple of thousand!
Debates? Down here it usuisally is...
Mack vs. ALF
Ford vs. Chevy
Scott vs. MSA
EMD vs. GE
And my favorite,
Martha White vs. White Lily. (Cornmeal, flour and GRITS)
I see the benifits of the BA registering system, but we would call it a little too time consuming. 2 in-2 out is a standard and so is leaving your company tags at the Command Board. We have done pressure in/out recordings in Smoke Diver training, but not for your on duty fire. Takes too long, we gotta get in there! Great discussion guys!

Added by TheFireman on 30 July 2009.
Pat, I love grits! Chitlins were ok but couldnt eat "tree rat"! One or two of the rednecks lived up to their name and plied me with drink, took one home to meet my mum and she loved him to bits. A few had been in Nam and kept us up telling tales of Thuds and F4s landing with tails hanging off etc. Got a USAF Asbestos helmet for my troubles! Pat, BA control is a good thing mate, better than a dead fireman.
Fireman, you remind me of a USAF guy who had been with a New York ladder company, lots of gung ho and cutting holes in roofs etc. Made my toes curl with his stories, it would be an interesting comparison to record US and UK firefighter deaths over a period of time, specifically where CABA is concerned. Good discussion it is lads, and a universal bond we all have.

Added by John Stott on 30 July 2009.
John,
There is no doubt that UK and other European countries have a significantly lower death rate that we do. It's not just procedure, but the overall prevailing attitude that has existed in our fire service for a long time. There are some shifts to the extreme cautious side, but we have so far fended them off with glee. I have seen articles in Fire service magazines that advocate NOT enering a fire structure unless life safety is involved. Poppycock I say! In the words of one of my past Seargents, "We're not here to bake cookies!".
Now John, you say he "plied you with drnk", that wouldn't have been some of our world famous moonshine would it??? Mighty fine stuff when you get it from the right redneck! And yes John, I have been gung-ho for 30 years now.(I just don't cut any holes in roofs.) No wiser, just a little smarter.

Added by TheFireman on 30 July 2009.
That made me laugh fireman! We have the creeping health and safety here as well. When I left the retained service nine years ago a lot of us oldies were regarded with a degree of horror for the "risks" we took, the job has changed and attitudes with it. Please dont get the impression that the British Fire Service is risk averse, there are still some good smokeys out there, however, an overactive trade union involves itself in every activity and employers are scared of them. After national strikes I am not suprised, compensation culture is also is a factor. No, been gung ho, along with the guys who know me well, but the job changed here, I quit when they sanctioned a part time appliance turning out with just three men!
As for the moonshine, it was made at RAF Lakenheath by Master Sgt ......... a good ole boy who I still keep in touch with, and its great for painstripping as well!

Added by John Stott on 30 July 2009.
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