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Clevelands new carp
Fire Engine Photos
No: 38202   Contributor: Dave Todd   Year: 2015   Country: United Kingdom
Clevelands new carp

Here's a photo of cleveland fire brigades new Compact Aerial Rescue Pump
Picture added on 06 January 2015 at 16:19
add commentComments:
from the registration plate, I think this is recycled from Hereford and Worcester. VX59HGJ. Scania P310/GB Fire Magirus Multistar.

Added by Peter Williams on 06 January 2015.
Is this a second hand machine ? it is already 6 years old

Added by Raf Firey on 10 January 2015.
oh dear , lessons from elsewhere have obviously went unheeded, it will give grief , will be off the run , will not reach over like an alp and will topple over at speed which is what is supposed to happen, remember to get all your kit off before you jack it up and hope your experience is neter than pretty much everyone elses , kent neing the llatest to dump appliances that have barely turned a wheel..............

Added by Donny Maclean on 14 January 2015.
Ha ha ' recycled' is such an apt description for these appliances !

Added by Rick Loudon on 14 January 2015.
Will be interesting to see this out and about. The boom does look very high and heavy . May be CFB got it at a very good price .

Added by Craig on 15 January 2015.
Second hand and only borrwed from Emergency One (UK) who are trying to sell it on behalf of Hereford and Worcester. Will be going to Stockton as the retained pump in April on evaluation before they decide to invest in two. All part of cutting Cleveland in half

Added by Graham mitchell on 15 January 2015.
Funny you should Say.. about it going on the Run... as I was at a Meeting last night (14/1/2015)... and I'm sure that this Wagon was Mentioned there!!!

Added by Dave Todd on 15 January 2015.
Looking at this vehicle the boom weight is carried so high, it must have similar performance to a mobile crane, probably not ideal in this role.

Added by Craig on 16 January 2015.
Oh dear, so it's being palmed off onto someone else! Why bother, it's a piece of junk! It didn't work in Hereford and Worcester so it's not going to work for anyone else. I have seen one of Yorkshire's CARP's, a 57 plate Merc for sale at an auctioneers for months and can't sell!!

Added by Matt Ireland on 16 January 2015.
These things are death traps. An example of doing things on the cheap whilst paying a fortune for it. This idea was discredited in West Yorkshire back in the seventies.

Added by John Stott on 19 January 2015.
this is the same as the ones L&B frs got and turned them into the most expensive driver training vehicles in the world and central frs sold them to D&G frs for a £1 !! I think they use them as aerials only , kent got rid of thiers and now another brigade is considering them , beggars belief!

Added by Alan Ramsay on 20 January 2015.
I agree that it does look very top-heavy. Other differences I've noticed, it's a full height body with a rear-mount platform. 99.9% of all others are 3/4 height mid-mount. These are twin axle wheelplan as opposed to all others' 3-axle.

Added by Neil from Leeds on 25 February 2015.
now in service at Saltburn as f/no 027, callsign M1 (carries Emergency One badges on the back too)

Added by Stephen on 13 January 2016.
Originally designed to provide German volunteer fire companies who could not afford or justify a separate aerial ladder with a less costly alternative, by combining a 30 meter tower with a standard pump appliance on an 18 tonne chassis.

These Multistars have been exported to several different countries, but never caught on in Germany!

As many comments mention, the unit is just too top heavy to be driven safely at emergency response speeds, and tends to be right at (or over) their design GVW all the time. This makes them ponderous and continually challenges the braking system.

Finally, the boom affords rather limited range of movement, and the cage's three-person weight rating is questionable, too.

Nicht ausgezeichnet! (Not excellent)

Added by Rob Johnson on 04 August 2017.
Saltburn do seem to be getting some use out of it , saw it at a fire just the other day been used as either a water tower or maybe a camera mount as no one in cage. Interesting point on gross weights, I wonder do 'normal' 13 ton and 16 ton gvw fire appliances operate with capacity to spare or are they maxed out ?

Added by CraigW on 08 August 2017.
Craig

A typical water tender with a 2400 liter tank in daily use in Germany weighs between eleven and thirteen tones depending on it's equipment load

Added by Rob Johnson on 09 August 2017.
I should add that some European fire brigades are buying pumpers on 18 ton chassis, but these are not loaded to anywhere near their maximum weight capacity.

They are being bought mainly because they have more powerful engines, more durable drive line components and of course larger brakes. So a standard 16 or 18 tonner can cost about the same as a 14 ton chassis with fire service upgrades.

Another factor is that - as they are in service for around fifteen to twenty five years - buying a chassis with a large reserve weight capacity allows for new heavier kit to be carried in the future, including unknown items which may not have even been invented yet!

Another factor is that a standard pumper does not necessarily get any bigger as it increases its gross weight capacity, so there are no meaningful maneuverability issues as you go up in weight from around 11 all the way up to 18.

But the Multistar is seriously right on the limit at 18 tons, and too much of that 18 tons is far too far off the ground!

Added by Rob Johnson on 14 May 2018.
One or both of Cleveland's Multistar CARP's are seen at every major Teeside fire so they are getting plenty of use. Must also be keeping Saltburn retained crew quite busy as even seen their Multistar at distant Hartlepool and Whitby fires .

Added by CraigW on 16 May 2018.
Craig:

As I understand it, the Multistars are all they have, so its Hobson's choice.

Or do they have other aerials they could be using instead?

Added by Rob Johnson on 16 May 2018.
What about the ex-Bedfordshire Scania HP at Middlesbrough (A6 - G727UNK)? Also last I heard of the old A6 (E604LHN) it was still about as a reserve (R6)

Added by Stephen on 23 May 2018.
I saw the venerable Scania ALP E604LHN in Middlesbrough fire station a few weeks ago. Looking well for 30 years old!

Added by CraigW on 23 May 2018.
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