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On the run in Grimsby Dennis
Fire Engine Photos
No: 34277   Contributor: B.J. Redgrift   Year: 2007   Manufacturers: Carmichael, Dennis   Country: United Kingdom
On the run in Grimsby Dennis

Dennis Carmichael J 750 FRH new 1991 , pictured in Grimsby 14 May 2007.
Picture added on 18 March 2013 at 23:59
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Did these not have two-tones or are they tucked away somewhere?

Added by Yelp Bullhorn on 23 March 2013.
Hello Yelp Bullhorn..
I Think you will find that the TWO TONES Will be placed on the front end of the wagon. behind the front wheel arch or even behind the grill..

Added by Dave Todd on 24 March 2013.
Maybe electronic two tones via the siren speaker....some of ours are like that

Added by Barrie Green on 25 March 2013.
Two tones are and have been common feature on the box of tunes in the cab, Just select two tones , wailer , yelp or whatever tune you fancy on the way to a shout, just about all appliances have these

Added by Alan Ramsay on 26 March 2013.
We have both fitted to appliances in North Yorkshire. The two tone air horns are under the grille at the front on the Volvo fleet. Crews here use both at busy junctions and in heavy traffic.

Added by Paul Warnock on 27 March 2013.
These pumps only have the siren speaker as you see it and no seperate two tone horns.

From 51 plate (if I remember right) all of Humberside appliances had electronic siren with only yelp/wail (no one could see reason for two tone as well) the change over was on the horn button but also an electronic bullhorn was on a footswitch - all operated by the driver and not by the OIC.

Interestingly these were the first Humberside appliances to have headlight flash which were intriguingly only on dipped headlight as the person who wrote the spec for the vehicles misinterpreted the law, hence the facility not beign very useful...

Added by Glenn Ramsden on 27 March 2013.
At the time that this appliance would have originally gone "on the run" the JCDD specifications required two "audible warning devices" to be fitted to all fire appliances. This could be two sets of two tones or one set with an additional electronic siren.
One of the few things I remember from hours of studying for the dreaded promotion examinations !!!!
Many Dennis appliances had a set of air operated two tones behind the front grill.

Added by Andy Fish on 27 March 2013.
Noise controls have been removed from OIC control as it is now deemed to be a drivers responsibility in law and the oics interference could have legal implications. Some of my OICs wouldnt 'allow' you to touch the 'noise' in my day !!!!!

Added by Barrie Green on 27 March 2013.
That's why we did what I described in the paragraph above, we put the noise box out of the way in the roof lining, no need for it at all.
One switch for siren on/off and then tone changeover on horn button keeping it as simple as possible with the least distractions and as you say no input by the OIC which when I was driving, I always found very distracting. Their interpretation of things and yours as a driver were sometimes worlds apart which led to unecessary distraction.

Added by Glenn Ramsden on 28 March 2013.
On the subject of taking them away from the oic , I do not in anyway shape or form have an issue with that. I do however have an issue with drivers who for whatever reason only known to themselves never or very seldom use them and before everyone shouts not true it is. I have worked on different stations /watches and every now and then you come across a driver who has got a fear of using them or waits till he is 10 feet from someones bumper , duplicity of controls and comms between the two in the front is what is called for. Not all appliances are the same and some are newer than others as regards siting of controls and the big one for`me when the appliance doesn't have the more modern 999 button or horn change is the sheer of workload on the driver in a busy street situation it would help if the gaffer could take the strain if it were appropriate. I am also unsure where the regulation about the driver only in law being allowed to use them , its one I havent heard of , duplication just if needed and only if appropriate for me , i would hate some pedestrian to be injured because they didnt hear the appliance and there wasnt an option for them to do so due to driver workload/allergy to usage

Added by Alan Ramsay on 29 March 2013.
Sorry Alan.....I know where you are coming from and as an old sweat I share your view.......but that is down to driver training, everyone should be trained to the same standard......where the legal difficulties lie is if the IOC is operating the siren and dosent switch on at the critical time, the machine hits something/someone as a result....it's the driver who ends up in the dock and cannot use the defence that he was relying on someone else to 'press the switch' as he was occupied. No.....it's the drivers sole responsibility....he cannot abdicate that in any way.....that is why most brigades have removed the o.i.c.s facility........ask your FBU.
Not saying I like it.......it's worked well for years and years.....buts that's how it is.

Added by Barrie Green on 30 March 2013.
I agree with you barrie but drivers are not trained to the same standard although it is getting better , but you still will have good and bad drivers and back up is all I am saying , if a driver is busy and he can call -hit the button boss -then that facility should exist , still dont see it written in law but am happy to be put right , I am a mid not old sweat by the way haha

Added by Alan Ramsay on 30 March 2013.
Sorry guys, I was just saying how the Humberside sirens developed over the years not who should switch what on or off. I can't help but think we're all over thinking what was just an almost throwaway comment about why we put siren switches where we did...

Added by Glenn Ramsden on 31 March 2013.
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