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A.R.P Volvo Falkirk fire station
Fire Engine Photos
No: 3188   Contributor: Stuart Leslie   Year: 2007   Manufacturer: Volvo   Country: United Kingdom
A.R.P Volvo Falkirk fire station

another picture of The new Magirus A.R.P at Falkirk fire station..not yet on the run !

should be in the near future ..thanks..LARBERT FIRE CADET Stuart Leslie
Picture added on 30 May 2007
add commentComments:
Nice Volvo FM. However if the boom length is more shorter than this maybe it would look nicer.

Added by Bomba Boy on 02 June 2007.
What a stupid looking thing this, if this is the future god help us.

Added by Eddie Rodgers on 13 August 2007.
I think eddie is on to something here, more comments please

Added by Big Tam on 14 August 2007.
these beast can do every thing they are wonderfull

Added by Scally on 27 August 2007.
What nonsense the last comment is! Of course appliances like this have their application but to claim they can do everything is untrue. During the summer months (when we actually have a summer) the majority of the calls in my area are grass fires set on wasteland where access is restricted down narrow rutted tracks. One of these would just never make it.

I think it has to be accepted that combination function appliances are introduced not because of their enhanced capability but only to reduce manning, by rolling a pump and an aerial appliance into one.

At a typical station with a conventional pump and aerial, the pump is called out in perhaps a 5 to 1 ratio with the aerial. So now with one of these you are hauling the 'ladder' around unnecessarily on four out of five shouts. It makes the claims of 'reduced environmental impact' in many Brigades 'Mission Statements' seem rather hollow.

Added by White-Poppe on 28 August 2007.
In response to the last comment, this appliance unlike the ones in Strathclyde, are built on the same 18 ton chassis as the normal new WrL's in central (see pic 1023). The appliance has that advantage of being the same size so it can fit into smaller areas than those as in pic 1458.

Added by Andy McVean on 28 August 2007.
this thing is a pile of cr-p they cannot even get the stupid thing on the run.

Added by Big Tam on 26 September 2007.
thats ware your wrong stirlings muilty stars comin on the runn next cupla months they are finnishing training on soon. Falkirks its still at magirus gettin repaired after volvo broxburn damaged it so they will receve stirlings alp when the muiltstar comes on the run till theres is repaired

Added by Scally on 28 September 2007.
scally there are to many issues to be adressed around these arps my guess is around next xmas before they are on the run.


Added by Big Tam on 02 October 2007.
every one says these are grate but by the sounds of them there as bad as the old php's ! why are the brigades buyin these combi aplancies there rubish bucks' combis only be used 1's if that
humbers sides carps not on the run strathclydes are very poor as they are so slow whtas wrong with keepin a conventional alp and pump
in sted of buyin
a combi and doin away with 2 or more motors some brigades are removine emergancy tenders pumps and areal for these to go on the run



Added by Scally on 03 October 2007.
Scally now you seem to be getting it, Cost cutting is the only driving force behind this type of appliance

Added by Big Tam on 04 October 2007.
a like the idea of runnin on of these or 2 of them along side coventional alp (areal ) and pump why dont they do that put one of them at a hi risk area whare a 3rd areal would be an advantage p.s falkirc's alps in a very bad way worring sighns of rust in vital parts one ff said we are trying to get control to pass all areal shouts in this area to stirling as this were not shure of it gose have a look at the chassy
got down n all 4's n the rust is unblevable theres no sighns of repairs to it just rusting awya and the hoorer stories av been heering about the new arp's

the best on was the were full hight and al of a suden the jakcs lost presure n thud it hit the ground

Added by Scally on 05 October 2007.
sorry about my last post i will re typw it when i get time

Added by Scally on 05 October 2007.
Tayside are to get one shortly but are arguing where to put it, strathclydes fell over and grampian couldnt give thiers away, they tried them 30 years ago and they didnt work then so why waste money now?, if they are put on a station and go off the run it means you have three appliances down, rescue /ariel and pump so maybe there are loads of spare appliances locked away somewhere, i cant wait!!

Added by Big Al on 05 October 2007.
i like this machine saw it at truckfest im august its a cracker

Added by ERC on 08 October 2007.
Does anyone know what the hold up with these things it all seems to be draging on a bit.

Added by Big Tam on 18 October 2007.
.come on someone must know what the hold up is.

Added by Big Tam on 02 November 2007.
Apparently, several problems and the time taken for training on a new concept in Uk. Due to problems they have apparently gone back to GB Fire to be repaired.

Added by Jake Sutton on 02 November 2007.
I saw this volvo in Paisley in August and then 1 of strathclyde's about 5 mins later. It was during the summer july/august time driving through the strrets - does anyone know why?

Added by Buzz on 18 November 2007.
what are the problems with these, has anyone any info.

Added by Big Tam on 18 November 2007.
a got told by the fire fighters at Falkirk its problems a do with hydraulic pressure on the jacks when they get set up. They were loosing pressure and was letting its self down

Added by Fire Fifer on 18 November 2007.
does anyone now when they will go on the run.

Added by Big Tam on 09 December 2007.
falkirk and stirling and on another have received there art's (areal recue tenders)

Added by Fire Fifer on 09 December 2007.
still no arp in falkirk i think.

Added by Big Tam on 12 December 2007.
sorry i ment to say on another note d&g have got there multi stars but they call them art's

Added by Fire Fifer on 12 December 2007.
Does anyone know what Scally is going on about? The occasional full-stop might help us decipher his comments. Is English your first language, Scally? Forgive me if it isn't.
PS to everyone: the plural of ARP is ARPs. And of ART is ARTs.

Added by Yelp Bullhorn on 15 December 2007.
What year was this built in?.

Added by Jamie Calver on 15 December 2007.
these ARPs reg 07, but thats not the full story must have been built two or more years ago, there must be serious faults with these appilances still no word when they will go on run.

Added by Big Tam on 18 December 2007.
These appliances are a disaster waiting to happen. Its all about cost cutting, the only people that are happy with them are the accountants in the various brigades. Lets just hope they are not involved in a house fire and one of these cumbersome machines is turned out to drag itself there. Or, tips over rounding a bend enroute!

Added by Buzz on 18 December 2007.
My man in central told me that these appliances have disappeared and have not been seen for months, anyone have any further info.

Added by Big Tam on 07 January 2008.
See my previous comment that they have had several problems, believe mainly with the hydraulic jacks failing when booms are up and they have gone back to GB Fire for repairs.

Added by Jake Sutton on 09 January 2008.
well at least the starthclyde ARPs are actually on the run and reliable

Added by Steve Bonner on 10 January 2008.
That says a lot for the good old Scania's. Why do central insist on buying Volvo?

Added by Buzz on 10 January 2008.
It has not been the chassis that has been the problem, if these had been built on scania chassis, the problem may still exist as it is the hydraulic jacks that are the problem, which is built by Magirus, not volvo.

Added by Jake Sutton on 11 January 2008.
dont the strathclydes fall over? i also heard they are slow and cumbersome but maybe that's a miss truth !!

Added by Big Al on 11 January 2008.
Sfr's are 6x2 wheelbase, so bigger and heavier. The volvo is 4x2 wheelbase. Maybe that has something to do with the capacity of the volvo to cope with this body. Strathclyde's fall over when cornering too fast (which 1st turnout pumps need to do), so to combine them is asking for trouble. If they hadn't cost so much in the first place, I would say get rid of them, but they have them now so we're stuck with them. Just hope they dont buy any more! anyone know how many sfr have?

Added by Buzz on 12 January 2008.
Strathclyde have 9 ARP another 4 is to be delivered early this year

Added by Steve Bonner on 13 January 2008.
Haha, lucky 13 then?

Added by Buzz on 15 January 2008.
After the tragic events this week is it not time that fire brigades had a look at the desgin of future appliances and stopped the head long rush towards bigger heavier and less nimble machines.

Added by Big Tam on 27 January 2008.
heard today sent back to makers major problem with it, anybody got any information what the problem is.

Added by Big Tam on 22 February 2008.
Big Tam, see my earlier comment

Added by Jake Sutton on 24 February 2008.
But whats the problem jake.

Added by Big Tam on 25 February 2008.
Something with the hydraulic jacks, that they aren't holding up when in use i am lead to believe.

Added by Jake Sutton on 26 February 2008.
the problem is that the jacks can not keep the pressure up they let them self down

Added by Scally on 26 February 2008.
it would probably fall over before it got there anyway, looks a big bit top heavy, we need to talk about this, what happened to grampians ?

Added by Big Al on 26 February 2008.
did grampian have the same type and is there a photo anywhere, and what problems if any.

Added by Big Tam on 27 February 2008.
This isn't tha same as Grampian's I don't have a spec but it was a Scania. Not sure of all the problems but it was a bit big for the narrow streets i heard they hit a car with the cage turning a corner in one of the villages near Elgin.

Added by Andy on 27 February 2008.
Grampian had a Scania Angloco appliance, it was too big and slow for the needs of Elgin and the area it covered as an aerial appliance-from Forres to Macduff. For a photo, look at the Angloco website, then look through all the appliance types.

Added by C Wood on 27 February 2008.
Come on there must be some information about these heaps of rubbish, ie when if ever they are to go on the run or are they heading for the scrapyard.

Added by Tam on 12 March 2008.
I have heard from an ex central fire officer on the 12th of April that stirling fire station personnel are to start training on their ARP as from monday the 14th of April.

Added by Grant Melville on 14 April 2008.
It looks like West Yorkshire have just ordered two of these, not sure where they will be based, possibly Bradford and Wakefield.

Added by Paul Warnock on 15 April 2008.
Heres some more info Lothian@borders have had delivered a multistar but its on a Scania chassis instead of the volvo. I got this info on the 12th also.

Added by Grant Melville on 16 April 2008.
as told today L&Bs multistar was taken of the run with serious faults and centrals removed from stirling station, does anyone have any more info.

Added by Tam on 17 June 2008.
i seen it at Stirling on Saturday in the flesh so to speak and couldn't believe how top heavy it looks, will they ever learn?

Added by Big Al on 18 June 2008.
It really surprises me that this appliance is on a 4x2 chassis. At least strathclyde's scania's are on a 6x2 chassis, which is better for the weight distribution. I think central were clutching at straws hoping a 4x2 would suffice, therefore saving money. Its a classic case of false economy. How much have they spent now on trying to rectify the problems? Im not saying a 6x2 is perfect, but the wear on tyres alone over a 6 year period on a 4x2 would be horrendous. Lesson learned perhaps, but will anyone be held accountable, afterall its tax payers money?

Added by Buzz on 19 June 2008.
does anybody know what's wrong that they have been pulled from service again

Added by Fife Fir on 19 June 2008.
No one will be accountable, all the people who where in at the initial design have now retired and the so called managers who are there now lack the balls to make a decision on the future of these arps.

Added by Tam on 21 June 2008.
For the argument, the USA "Quints" [same idea as ARP here] basically take the long Aerial/Tower chassis, add the pump, tank, compartments, booster reel, hose-beds etc to make the "Quint"
It takes a good-sized truck, which would be way too big for most UK Fire Protection Areas.
Random examples are Picture 146 Margate Quint 24 and Picture 98 Rahway Truck 10.
Regards,
Pat_R-B

Added by Pat_R-B on 23 June 2008.
Its all gone very quiet about these appliances, where are they, are they going on the run come whats the score, Heard a rumour they had been sent back to Germany.

Added by Tam on 28 July 2008.
L&b's has been sent back to Germany to have bodywork problems rectified

Added by Stevie Murray on 28 July 2008.
Its interesting to see that British brigades are getting bigger and bigger appliances like the USA whereas the rest of Europe still seem to stick with more compact vehicles.
Its a shame that brigades are trying to find ways of cost cutting and therefore cutting on the quality of the vehicles they are purchasing, these CARPS being a perfect example of that accountant mentality.

What are the opinions on the current crop of vehicles, MANs and Scanias for example? The few opinions ive seen seem to suggest they are poor quality in terms of road handling and all round ability.
Any thoughts welcome!

Added by David Sapsford on 01 August 2008.
Scania, to slow, leans to much, top heavy and is a bitch to get in and out don't know about MAN who I believe now own Scania, but they are lorries and big ones at that, and were designed to be tippers etc, i know the manufacturer will say otherwise but at the end of the day if you look at the specifications there are little or no differences, the only real differences are in e electrics and cabs, i have said as much before they are getting too big and unwieldy, Big Al

Added by Alan Ramsay on 01 August 2008.
two years over due, faults to many to name, now heard they are way over weight does anyone have any idea how much these things have cost.

Added by Tam on 23 August 2008.
you dont need binoculars to see they are overweight, i really think the public of this country should be aware how much of their cash is flushed down the toilet i really do, its a bloody disgrace

Added by Big al on 23 August 2008.
Last I heard about our one from Mac road was that it was tentatively on the weight limit and no more but it still hadn't everything on it. And that was just before it got sent back to the manufacturers.

Added by Stevie Murray on 23 August 2008.
The Hong Kong FRD have something similar on their Scanias and former Dennis's chassis built by SK Fire - but with far lighter and smaller platforms with better weight distribution for the narrow streets of Hong Kong. Surely their designed vehicles would be far better than these - which seem incredibly over the top heavy......

Added by Nick on 24 August 2008.
We all have very valied arugments and points about these aplliances and should go public, only thing that bothers me is, do we really think anyone will listen and take any notice?

I will back you 100 % in going public as these are death traps, no mattter of the manufacturer in chassis or body work.

Added by John Johnstone on 24 August 2008.
I was speaking to a firefighter from central Scotland last Wednesday, and he was saying they have stopped training on their ARP due to stress factors of the booms? Tayside's new CARP is in the country now i presume at the dealership? Its a full scania crew cab with bronto booms i dont know the bodybuilder? There's another on order, one is for central Dundee the other for Perth.

Added by Grant Melville on 24 August 2008.
Possibly SK Fire (Rosenbauer AG Subsidiary) of Singapore Scania's fitted with the Magirus Simon Snorkel 16m Hydraulic Platform are the best ever design around the world as Hong Kong FSD had used similar design from the 1980s till now without any unwanted incident and complains from the driver itself.

Added by Bomba 995 on 24 August 2008.
It would appear that perhaps we are asking too much of these appliances?. They do seem a good idea but with the amount of equipment that we need to carry on these appliances ( until ops research says differently )it just doesn't seem a good idea at all. Too much equipment means an increase in weight, increase in weight means too heavy a machine to manoeuvre. To me it seems illogical to expect to mount a set of booms on top of what nearly amounts to a normal appliance body and think it will still function the same and drive the same.

Added by Stevie Murray on 24 August 2008.
As i said earlier, they didnt work in the 70, s and they wont work now, not unless they are on a chassis designed from the ground up, the end

Added by Big al on 24 August 2008.
these appliances only seem a good idea to the new breed of fire brigade managers who's first thought is to the balance book and not the operational efficiency of the crew.

Added by Tam on 24 August 2008.
If appliances are as bad as they say why are we still buying them all we seem 2 hear is bad news as I hear dundee /tayside are buying them 2. if this is true they are bound 2 know what they are like surely.

Added by ERIC on 25 August 2008.
Heard a rumour that i as right they are heading for the scrapyard has anyone with any contacts in central got any more info.

Added by Tam on 03 September 2008.
Northants have now ordered two one for Moulton to replace the rusty ALP and one for Corby's 2nd Pump, which will replace the TL based at Kettering

Added by Fred on 09 October 2008.
God help them!

Added by Buzz on 09 October 2008.
I think most people will agree with me when I say this; these appliances are without a doubt an excellant piece of equipment in the technical sense and are nice piece of kit, but they are being used for the wrong purposes, by all means fire services should buy them to use in stations that have two pumps or more, exlcuding those that already have a dedicated aerial perhaps like in central Alloa and Larbert, where an aerial would be benificial and new 'proper' aerials purchased to replace the dedicated aerials that are done, not with these.

Added by AM on 09 October 2008.
sorry dont agree all, they are not an excellent piece of kit at all, look at the evidence, its all here !, if you have an rtc in a village how on earth is this or strathclydes monstrosities going to get up a narrow alleyway/road/track, if you have seen taysides you have to be vertically challenged to work the pump as it is so low, why on earth can they be put on a station to cover the job of three appliances if all three appliances are needed at /or near the same time, a not unlikely scenario? they wont fit some stations and certainly not retained stations, i cannot see any compelling reason for these apart from cost saving, i thought we were a lifesaving service !!and bye the way how can they be described as being of technical excellence when grampian scrapped theirs as it wouldnt work or go down the narrow streets of Elgin, centrals has never worked and is heading the same way and strathclydes tip over and i believe thier down time is more than a w/t/l, lets get real !!!

Added by Big Al on 10 October 2008.
I take the excellant as an engineer, not as a good use of tax payers money, these appliances are good in a technical sense not that of good thinking, I am still more in favour of the dedicated aerial and pumps, but if there was no problems with them I think there could be a place for them, but not what the fire service is using them for.

Added by AM on 10 October 2008.
Any of these actually on the run yet???

Added by Bryan Sweeney on 10 October 2008.
rephrase time, excellence of engineering and good technical foundation should translate into reliability and fitness for purpose these are not, the end

Added by Big Al on 11 October 2008.
What type have Northants ordered Fred? Tayside's first new CARP is due at the workshops at Blackness road in december.Im hoping to get down there and get a couple of photo's weather permitting? Big Al, and just think Grampian's was only a 4x2 not exactly suited for Elgin.LoL. Im a member of the FBS and on a Strathclyde visit this year witnessed a turnout from Polmadie. They send their 2nd the W/TL out first in case the ARP gets stuck in a narrow road. I couldn't beleive how slow the ARP was in getting away and it looked unstable. The call was an AFA to hampden park so we dident have to wait long for the machines to return before we got our photo's. HELP! I hope Tayside's not like Strathclyde's?

Added by Grant Melville on 12 October 2008.
I saw 2 of Strathclydes at an incident today in Paisley. Too big for the street and neither of them used the aerial ladder/platform. Whats the point? You had both Yorkhill and Paisley ALP tied up at the same incident.
Cumbersome short term saving/waste of money!

Added by Buzz on 14 October 2008.
Hi 2 of strathclyde's ARPs have been off the run for 5 months they are back at Vema Finland and the have been replaced by Rps!!!!

Added by Steve B on 15 October 2008.
Hey grant when your at blackness road have a look at the line of scania r/p/l sitting there, i saw 5 last time, they cant get them to fit into some retained stations lol, what chance have we !

Added by Big Al on 17 October 2008.
Big Al your right there is 6 new scania P270 CP28 Rp, s at blackness road. 3 chassised by JDC reg Nos. SP58CHC/D/F still to be allocated? and 3 unchassised
to be chassised by JDC next year. Ive been told tere is a 15 month waiting list for a scania chassis.LoL So Tayside have got in early. Ive only now to get photo's of the 07 plate Scania/sleeper cab prime mover DTU which is located in Perth and this new Carp when it arrives?

Added by Grant Melville on 17 October 2008.
Buy 2 get one free!! and i thought they were breeding !!

Added by Big Al on 17 October 2008.
leave it alone its a brilliant bit of kit and u critics are just jealous of us


Added by Rich(larbert fire cadets) on 21 October 2008.
Hi Rich, let us know when its been at its 50th shout and how its performed up to that time, thanks

Added by Big Al on 21 October 2008.
Rich what an immature point to put forward these appliances are not fit for purpose or they would have been on the run long ago. No fire service has the resources to buy these things and then leave it sitting around in a garage for 2 years.

Added by Tam on 22 October 2008.
How can anyone be jealous of these things? they have killed and injured people already, so what's to be proud of?


Added by John Johnstone on 22 October 2008.
because of these machines being unfit for purpose, we at south queensferry have been told our 'new' machine will not be delivered to us post-refurbishment as it is to go back to it's previous station as they will not be getting the combi machine. if these machines are that good Rich, why then have they been returned to manufacturer?. so we are now continuing to run the oldest operational machine in L&B - a 13 1/2 year old Scania series 3.

Added by Stevie Murray on 22 October 2008.
Also Rich, Strathclyde have quite a few which are bigger and better equipt than this one, plus they are Scania's. The criticism really is all about the appliance, not Central Scotland F&R.

Added by Buzz on 22 October 2008.
Followed this argument with interest, the idea behind these machines is sound enough and a pretty bold approach. However the practicalities of such a design in operation are different. Traditional thinking in appliance design has been based on many years experience of real conditions. The demise of the wheel escape was a retrograde step in firefighting, leading to, ultimately, to designs which are driven by commercial interests. There have been enough mistakes made by so called experts over the years but lessons have not been learned. Until fire appliance design is returned to a common sense, experience led basis, we will have to see taxpayers money wasted on gimmicks.

Added by John Stott on 23 October 2008.
see my previous comments, also scania although a reasonable w/t/rp are too high, slow and don't handle very well, i feel that the lorrry chassis is not up to the job asked of them and a fresh but more practicle approach should be taken

Added by Big Al on 23 October 2008.
Well Al, all I can add is that over the years commercial chassis have been used for cost reasons, rarely for practical. This machine frankly appears dangerous in design ie top heavy. I wouldn't rate its operation at road speeds being safe or, given the wheelbase, its operation as a platform. We had similar designs foisted on airports for engine access and they were downright dangerous. I am not into gimmicky machines, a platform should be that and that only, not pose as something its not.

Added by John Stott on 23 October 2008.
This is all down to the financial number crunshers.....the figures do add up (on paper) Consider the cost of employing 2 firefighters X by 4 (watches) X 52 X the average life of an aerial appliance (say 15 years) its an amazing saving (again on paper). However.....ignore the look of the CRAP (sorry CARP) it certainly will not work long term (probably short term either) Time will tell!

Added by Barrie Green on 23 October 2008.
tayside news mag for their employees are showing a photo of warwickshires as an example, should have printed it on its side or being towed, yes the numbers add up but does the numbers show downtime and what is the cost of spare appliances, training, extensions in buildings, early replacement, spares as they avery very complicated, and most of all life!! and by the way we should be sending this forum and the strathclyde scania one to the media, time everyone knew how ther money is being wasted to mke a small section of people look good to councillors and board members who dont know any better

Added by Big Al on 23 October 2008.
Well there seem to be a lot of people who use this site who have a lot of experience over the years, Barrie, a good make of aerial will go for twenty years given their low use. I agree the bean counters rule the roost. If this or any other authority are serious about these, what about capital cost in converting stations? As for retained men using this stuff, I was retained for many years and would have walked if this kind of machine had been foisted on us.
Al, you are right, one of these will turn over and kill someone. As for use, I hope a record is kept of the time its only used as a pump as opposed to a platform. Why oh why must someone die before this kind of gimmick is seen for what it is!

Added by John Stott on 24 October 2008.
Re Rich's comment of October 21st, why on earth should anybody be jealous of these things. Remember, he's with Central, and they've got a pair of "07" registered machines that to the very best of my knowledge have never been operational yet ! Other brigades keep ordering the things, and yet look how many are going back with faults !! Jealous ? - I don't think so !!

Added by Ian Moore on 24 October 2008.
Your comments are spot-on John, my brigade, Cheshire have ordered 2 CRAPs with a 3rd one to follow....truely a retrograde step, the idea didnt work 25 years ago and it wont work now longterm.

Added by Barrie Green on 24 October 2008.
Hey whats the green side to these ? the environmental footprint sending this to a bin fire or an rtc etc must be double that of a pump, and who all got an invite to the angloco jolly i know i didn't and did angloco and the like mention the grampian one on there website is off to the scrappy!!

Added by Big Al on 24 October 2008.
Thanks Barrie, its been a few years since I saw the like of this being foisted on brigades, and you are right, it didnt work then and wont now. I am all for new ideas and anything to make a job easier but there are limits. It makes my blood boil that companies suck in senior officers and accountants with claims for wonder machines when it is clearly a cost cutting excercise about manning levels. I would love to see an independant engineers test on all aspects of this re its safety. Oh look! A flying pig!

Added by John Stott on 24 October 2008.
I'd love to see one on Top Gear......

Added by John Johnstone on 25 October 2008.
Anyone heard if Humberside and South Yoks have got their Merc-Benz CRAPS, whhop, CARPS yet?

Both brigades were saying how good they are but not heard anything for awhile now, anyone know anything?

Added by John Johnstone on 25 October 2008.
they are hardly going to say otherwise !!!

Added by Big Al on 26 October 2008.
Perhaps they are reading this thread!!!

Added by John Stott on 26 October 2008.
The CFO of Humberside insisted last November that the CRAP destined for Grimsby should be on the run by the 1st January 2008 as his plans for reducing personnel from the watches at Grimsby Peakes Lane would take effect from that date! guess what??? its still not on the run now October 2008! multitude of problems including breakdowns, training issues to mention those I dare - I actually asked a question under the freedom of information act which was replied to yesterday as a refusal to answer under some obscure section ! but simply that refusal answers the questions asked - it is not fit for purpose! I also asked if there was any truth in the rumour that the 2nd one that had been ordered had been cancelled - no answer on that but if you go to the Hull Daily Mails website and search theres a load on there about this waste of money and yes its been bought not leased!

Added by Rick Loudon on 26 October 2008.
Thanks for that Rick, thought both them and outh yorks had gone rather quite about these huge wastes of money!

Added by John Johnstone on 27 October 2008.
Paisleys arp boom section has been off the run for 6 weeks due to leveling problems. still waiting for vema to fix. all crews have lost all faith in this motor. sometimes it works, sometimes it does not.In for bodywork repairs due to rear overhang his solid gate post

Added by C4bhoy on 27 October 2008.
Now that should not suprise us Rick! Know any awkward councillor who can ask the same question in a public forum? If the fleet manager and sanctioning officers had the amount wasted deducted from their pension pots, now that would be justice. Seriously though, these things should be subject to open debate, as for the companies that market them, well, I will keep my opinions of those to myself.

Added by John Stott on 28 October 2008.
they should be made to do a shift on them, totally unpracticle, to provide appropriate fire cover we would need at least 2 on every whole time station, some one should send this forum to the daily record or the express or the like, its a national scandal . the amounts of money wasted must be millions and why oh why are all the fleet managers following like lemmings ? ours wears a scania jacket, must have bought it himself, and as for the angloco jollies and the like they must have cloth ears, enough is enough before people get hurt or worse

Added by Big Al on 29 October 2008.
Just out of interest, i wonder if any countries have purchased similar appliances and if they work ok for them and what spec they are compared to the UK spec ones.

Added by John Johnstone on 29 October 2008.
There are similar appliances in the usa but they are even bigger, i have a friend in california who i have e-mailed and apparently the down time is as bad there as here, but i have heard they are looking at dedicated aerials again, they last longer and pumps dont use as much gas, funny that coming from an american!

Added by Big Al on 29 October 2008.
I see you are a fan of some of these companies too Al? They churn out absolute rubbish then charge the earth for something based on a lorry chassis. Perhaps the Carps could be transferred to streetlight cleaning or used for window cleaning on highrises.

Added by John Stott on 02 November 2008.
Big Al if you look on the blues and two's website? Kilrush Co.Clare have purchased Grampian's ex Scania/angloco/bronto ARP, but there's no photo yet?
So it hasn't gone to the scrappy.LoL

Added by Grant Melville on 02 November 2008.
Hey grant, i am glad that grampian got a little of their purchase cost back, it would be interesting to know how much !! and that is lol !!! good luck to Kilrush, i hope that their streets are wider than Elgins, bear in mind this was probably the most compact crap sorry carp and it didn't work there, i have a mate in grampian and apart from the technical problems they had it was the fact that it damaged the lovely stonework of the local houses as it went its weary way to a shout, i am not an old dinosaur who objects to change, i don't mind change in fact i welcome it if it makes savings and makes our job more efficient, i don't like waste, i don't like dangerous practices disguised as such, and i don't like the way fleet managers are bribed and brainwashed to make unsuitable purchases, i have spoken to some and they really are brainwashed beyond belief, they will defend these heaps of crap till they are blue in the face, wrong wrong wrong

Added by Big Al on 02 November 2008.
picture 5539 is a USA single rear-axle machine, with similar functions. Wider, longer - but not as top-heavy.

Regards, from Canada,

Added by Pat Rivers-Bowerman on 03 November 2008.
I read in the paper about an MP who brought this issue up - it got a 2 inch column in the tabloid. When one of these machines kill someone, maybe it will get a 2 page spread.

Added by Buzz on 06 November 2008.
Can we please stop commenting on this photo!!! by now we all know 'carp' is a very apt anagram of 'c**p'. And i'm sick of receiving dozens of emails per week saying 'a new comment has been added to picture 3188... Blah blah blah...'

so carps are c**p. Firefighters hate them, the toadies that buy them are penny-pinching, uninformed and reckless yes-men, the british public are ignorant to the peril that these ill-conceived monstrosities put them in...and to top it all - they don't even look smart. The end...

Added by Yelp Bullhorn on 07 November 2008.
if you have no interest in this subject and are sick of the comments left by people who are, delete it ! (i note you didn't leave your name)

Added by Big Al on 07 November 2008.
Sorry Yelp, your in a democracy mate, when my taxes stop being wasted on Carps and other Carp I will shutup! Anyway, we oldies owe it to the new breed of fleet managers to show them how gullible they are!

Added by John Stott on 07 November 2008.
I would love to know how many fleet managers visit these sites!...but....I agree with you John, it has create a lot of debate if nothing else!

Added by Barrie Green on 07 November 2008.
people people i passed Falkirk fire station this morning, at the back of 4 and the carp was parked between f34 (iru) f35 (the alp)

Added by Scally on 08 November 2008.
Its only 2 years late we should be getting excited, so the question is how did central manage without it ? pretty well i guess, and what is the total cost of this appliance now ? if it ever goes on the run, someone will suffer as it will undoubtedly break down or go off the road, the fbu should be looking into this

Added by Big Al on 08 November 2008.
John Stott and big Al, my comments were not suppose to cause offense. Even though I am a little fed-up with this ulta-repetitive debate, the comments were left in jest. I didn't expect you to be so touchy. Lighten up! And if this is a democracy, then by very defifnition, my opinions are as valid as yours.

And I did leave my name, Big Al. My name is Bullhorn, Yelp Bullhorn! Oh and before you question it, do you expect me to believe that 'Big Al' is YOUR real name?

Added by Yelp Bullhorn on 09 November 2008.
End of this discussion.


Hi guys, as editors / moderators we've been following this discussion obviously and we think you've all had the chance to come up with all the facts and let us know your opinions. However, we feel that it is now time to end it as, in our opinion, all has been said.


Thanks again for the contributions,

Added by Marcel Gommers on 09 November 2008.
To the moderators of this wonderful site I'm sorry but the debate should be allowed to continue, what is happening to Fire and Rescue Services throughout this country - which once had arguably the best Fire and Rescue Service in the world is part of the history of the fire service and as such should be recorded! otherwise no one, whether they be serving, retired or just an enthusiast will be able to know what is happening appliance - wise in the British Fire Service - we will end up with a gap in the records and people in future will be bemused to hear that some people were 'sick of the debate' so the thread was stopped! its quite simple as 'Yelp' says he even knows which picture it is without looking at the site so just delete it without opening it - ergo he's happy and we are happy! Believe me theres lots happenung on these appliances at the moment even in the most ardent of supporters the patience is starting to 'wear thin'!!!

Added by Rick Loudon on 05 December 2008.
Thank you Rick for your view.
And yes, perhaps it is relevant and important what is happening.
However, it is my opinion (as an editor) that this discussion has
become very repetitive and a few comments (some of which we have not
published) are not contributing any facts and are deteriorating in
language. We like the site to be attractive to visitors from all over
the world, with interesting photos and facts / information. And with
this in mind I think this discussion is at its end.
If anyone disagrees I am open to any suggestions and views, but
please use my email address to exchange these... just click on my
name below.

Added by Marcel Gommers on 05 December 2008.
One of those particular impaired will certainly answer type of therapy. These are certain careful medication in view that therapies. People today, where circumstances a lot more really serious, may require surgical interventions to be treating its problems.


Added by Thomashon on 02 March 2014.
How is this machine doing now, 7 years later?

Added by Buzz on 05 April 2014.
Buzz, this appliance is or was? stationed at B7 Stranrar (RDS) as 1st away. Last seen on an FBS visit to E-One Cumnock on the 24th August 2013 and was being upgraded to multistar 2.

Added by on 09 April 2014.
I think it is now sitting in the west hub vehicle workshops having never entered service


Added by Sean Kersse on 09 April 2014.
Never entered service? That is an extraordinary waste of money. Would have been better to strip it to its chassis and put an ordinary body and set of ladders on it. Mind you, the mileage will be low and almost good as new. Could still do it.

Added by Buzz on 18 April 2014.
Did they not have two of them I now fie has one on a Scania body and they still use it

Added by Eric Haddow on 22 April 2014.
The 2 from Edinburgh lothain are now stripped down and used as driver trainers as for fife's one its a different design

Added by William on 23 April 2014.
The Fife one is the same as Strathclyde's. Scania P310/JDC/Vema but with a bigger 340 engine.

Added by Grant Melville on 23 April 2014.
The Magirus Multistar was originally developed for German small town volunteer fire companies.

The thinking was that these communities did very occasionally need an aerial truck, but the demand did not justify the cost of a dedicated aerial ladder. So the Multistar was intended to function primarily as a pumper, and to fill the aerial role if needed, without waiting for volunteers to show up to man a separate aerial, which would often have to respond from another more distant fire company.

In these circumstances, the concept made some sense, and quite a few have been sold. In areas with very few tall structures and dispersed volunteer fire stations, it is a practical way of getting a small aerial to structure fires relatively quickly.

But it is far from ever being designed for use in the UK and this looks like yet another misapplication of an original overseas concept and technology. It was certainly never intended to replace both a pumper and an aerial, but to add an additional capability to a structural fire pumper.

By the way, almost all German small town volunteer fire companies run one or more 4X4 water tenders and/or tankers. So they would not normally respond to brush or crop fires with a Multistar, except perhaps as third or fourth due for extra manpower.

Added by Rob Johnson on 23 April 2014.
A few weeks ago, both were still siting at west hub workshops

Added by Sean Kersse on 23 April 2014.
Rob

ALL UK brigades bough/leased these things with the view of combining a pump and an ariel ...thereby replacing one or the other...most(but not all) UK stations that run ariels are primarilary wholetime crewed so the greatest cost is wages to crew them...therefore, the thinking was to combine them and replace one or the other !

Added by Rick Loudon on 26 April 2014.
Servers are really easy to utilise similarly, what you need to undertake happens to be include crucial computer data towards host, diablo-movie.com

Added by Williamdup on 23 August 2014.
Hi Gent`s!Since the start of Magirus Multistar 2005, only 13 of them has been sold in Germany!AND, a very few of them is used as a Carp!

Anders F. Sweden.

of them is in use as a Carp!The firebrigades use them as Alp, Pumper

Added by on 21 April 2015.
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