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Grimsby FB Dennis PHP 1968
Fire Engine Photos
No: 23805   Contributor: Royce Treacher   Year: 1968   Manufacturer: Dennis   Country: United Kingdom
Grimsby FB Dennis PHP 1968

I took this picture at Peaks Lane fire station in 1968 soon after this Dennis PHP JJV 999F was delivered to Grimsby Fire Brigade. Fitted with Simon SS50 boom. I am unsure exactly which chassis it was - F36 or F38 (I believe they differ in width) and which power unit was fitted - B61 or B68.
Picture added on 24 June 2010 at 17:12
add commentComments:
This is a Dennis F36 andleft Dennis 25/10/1967. It has two water tanks 125gals each and was past to Humberside FB in 1974

Added by Wayne on 24 June 2010.
JJV999F was a 1968 Dennis F38/Dennis SS50 PHP that served the Grimsby County Borough Fire Brigade at Peakes Lane,Grimsby until 1974.Becoming part of Humberside Fire Brigade through re-organisation in 1974,the appliance remained at Peakes Lane until 1977,then was re-located to Station A1 New Walkergate-Beverley-Humberside FB until going out of service in 1983.

Added by Pete Matten on 24 June 2010.
For commentary see picture #10602 on this site indicating this is an F38, though dennissociety indicates it could be a F36, and no F38 is listed against Grimsby. Great picture - I know of no other of this appliance.

Added by Peter Williams on 24 June 2010.
Funny that for I have a list of every Dennis truck from the Dennis records and they say its a F36 not a F38

Added by Wayne on 25 June 2010.
The Fire Brigades Handbook'Special Appliances-Vol 2'shows the appliance as being a Dennis F38.(The books a good reference-but I've found afew mistakes?).I also have a list of all 50ft PHP's that served in the UK and Ireland and again it mensions it was an F38.
Actually,looking through the listings,I cannot find any mension of a Dennis F36 chassis at all.The 50ft-PHP'appliances produced by Dennis were mounted on F38,F44,F45,F48,F49,F108,F109 and F130 chassis,and actually this very picture shows the first Dennis/Dennis Simon Snorkel 50ft PHP produced in 1968 by this company.

Added by Pete Matten on 25 June 2010.
I have it lisited with Dennis's as an F36 delivered on 25/10/1967

Added by Soren Heeks on 25 June 2010.
Hello, For everyone who has become technical, we are looking at a very rare chassis adaption on a Dennis F.36 specification chassis supplied to Grimsby Fire Brigade on 25/10/67 and reads 145F.36B. Most appliances which were adapted for the Simon SS50 Hydraulic Boom operation were very often F.45s in later years. This was because the chassis was to have a heavier cross member/spine
for the additional weight and stress. This chassis would have been modified to meet this requirement and would be running on 8.25 split rim wheels with an overall heavier shock and spring system to sustain the role on cornering.
Confusion often comes because many chassis adaptions, bodywork wise (cab) could be anything
from an F.43/F.45/F.44 etc etc, Coventry City Fire Brigade operated the first Pump/Escape/Emergency Tenders on F.36B chassis B indicating modification (Normally on weight) later the Brigade went on to a F.43B for their 1969 Deliveries the F.43 was a manual box chassis
but could also be adapted for auto-box operation as was Coventrys so it all can become very confusing to fire buffs.


Added by BOB CARVER on 25 June 2010.
Oh dear! I seem to have caused quite a stir! As I understand it, from a list supplied to me by Dennis many years ago the F36 had a width of 7'6" and was powered by an RR B81 power unit. The F38 was 7'0" in width and had an RR B61 engine. I would suspect that JJV 999F was perhaps the former, as such a heavy machine would have the more powerful engine. So is the debate coming down in favour of F36?
With thanks for all your interest and contributions!

Added by Royce Treacher on 26 June 2010.
Great picture. Nice to see it as i remember seeing this appliance back in the sixties when new. It attended the fire at the fisherman's hostel on Hope street in the town. Be great to see any other pictures you may have. Do you happen to have any of CEE 999C which arrived back in 1965?

Added by Brian redgrift on 05 July 2010.
Yes Brian, I do have some good quality pictures of CEE 999C together with others of Grimsby appliances of the 1950-1970 era. I hope to upload one or two over the next few weeks. Do you still live in the area?

Added by Royce Treacher on 08 July 2010.
Hi Royce, yes i still live in Grimsby area. Yes i remember that era well with F12 PE REG DEE 109, Dennis F8 PUMP REG DEE 496, Dennis F17 PUMP TURNTABLE LADDER REG EJV 955, 1959 Dennis F24 PE Reg MEE 247, 1951 Commer Superpoise Emergency Tender REG PJV 506
DECOMMISSIONED ABOUT 1972.

1965 Dennis F CEE 999 C Pump replaced DEE 496 Dennis F8

1968 Dennis F38 REG JJV 999 F Pump Hydraulic Platform( SIMON SNORKEL SS 50 BOOMS )

1972 Dennis F49 Reg BEE 999 L PE Replaced MEE 247

Added by Brian redgrift on 08 July 2010.
If I remember rightly this was one of the first of its type around. I was only young at the time but my father, a local councillor was chair of the council Fire Brigade Committee at the time, fire chief I believe was Ted Leppard. I can certainly remember being taken to see it (or at least a similar snorkel when it was delivered

Added by Paul Kennington on 08 January 2011.
Paul - Quite right. This would have been the Snorkel you saw and Ted Leppard was indeed the CFO. I was intrigued to learn that your dad was chair of the FB Committee. I have been trying hard to trace any official documentation regarding the Grimsby brigade pre the amalgamation (such as annual reports, accounts, minutes, etc.) but without any success. I suppose it is too much to hope that you could help me in this respect? Anyway, great to hear from you and a Happy New Year!

Added by Royce Treacher on 09 January 2011.
Paul, you are correct in that this was actually the first Dennis/Dennis SS50 PHP and the only one built on an F38 chassis, but the first 50'PHP in the UK dates from 1964 and was a Bedford TK/Angus Fire Armour/DS50(reg-164YFK)that served the Hereford&Worcs C.C.Fire Brigade.

Added by Pete Matten on 09 January 2011.
Royce,
Sadly my father (&mother) died some 25 years ago, and all docs will have disappeared long ago. Had he been alive he would have kept everything. I can remember some large glossy pictures taken at handover, if my memory serves me right, with my father and the chief on the platform high above Peakes Lane. Racking my brains to remember if I have them anywhere, but dont think I have. Will look nevertheless.

Added by Paul kennington on 10 January 2011.
The Worcs 50'PHP Bedford TKEL/Fire Armour/Firefly 164YFK is shown on this site at picture #23635 and picture #20793.

Added by Peter Williams on 11 January 2011.
Found this really interesting, have been researching my family tree and this relates to my grandfather Ted Leppard.

Added by Joanna Leppard on 04 November 2011.
I drove most of the appliances that are mentioned above as a Grimsby fireman. All the paperwork connected with The former Grimsby Fire Brigade are kept in the archives in the Town Hall, formally the Police Station. I also presented Ted Lepperd with his watch on his retirement.

Added by Steve Creese on 02 November 2013.
This thread has been quiet for a while, but above I mentioned that my dad was chair of the FB committee at the time this was bought. I've just found 4 b&w photos of 'the handover' of the engine at Peakes Lane by him to Ted Leppard. Not sure I can post them here however.

Added by Paul Kennington on 15 April 2016.
Not sure if you're still out there Royce, but I've found 4 b&w photographs taken at the 'handover' of this engine as mentioned in an earlier post (2011)

Added by Paul Kennington on 18 April 2016.
Yes Paul -still here! Any chance you could let me have copies- either via the net or by post? I'm
only too willing to reimburse you. I am desperate for any information regarding old Grimsby appliances.

Added by Royce Treacher on 22 April 2016.
The PHP was not a successful innovation, and after a lot of research I have not been able to find a single case of a British fire brigade ever replacing one with another PHP at the the end of its service life.

Indeed, many were disposed of quite quickly, with quite a few being sold off, especially to Ireland, after only a few years - while others rapidly found themselves on the reserve roster.

The problems? Although they were built on a variety of chassis as well as Dennis, most suffered from one or more of:

1- Slow, due to extra weight and low power engine.
2- Unstable, due to being top heavy.
3- Small water tank, due to extra weight of boom.
4- Less locker space, due to layout.
5- Limited accommodations for ladders.
6- Limited range of the 50 foot (15 meter) boom, which was actually very rarely used in practice.

As the saying goes in my native Yorkshire, these were "neither nowt nor summat".

Added by Rob Johnson on 19 April 2019.
Why does this make me think of the quote 'Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it.'


Added by CraigW on 25 April 2019.
Rob
this is not quite an answer to your question but close. West Yorkshire replaced a Simonitor with a Simonitor I think. Dodge VWR 676L as replaced by Volvo F848SHD (though the booms on the latter came from KTD 615K a Lancs Ford D series machine)

Added by Petros on 10 May 2019.
Thanks. Some of these did have unusual histories, but overall I think they were generally not a happy innovation. Apart from the units sold off to Ireland, similar appliances do not seem to have been used anywhere else apart from a few squirts in North America and Japan.

As it turns out, my local fire department in Chicago has a couple of 55 foot snorkels plus one at each airport. The city based units run alongside rescue companies and are useful at major low rise fires like strip malls and such. The airport units are intended for deployment at both structure and aircraft incidents.

Added by on 15 May 2019.
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